Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.40

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 551.7 KB | 14,156 lines

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4181 Re: NIR : RPL GARBAGE!
7/10/93 14:24 18/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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             The above samples (deleted) seem to look like the repetative type of
        example one would find in a text about programing, used to illustrate the
------------------
No... I know the languages... I've written so much code I would use up
at least half a box of paper if I was to print it all.
I was just reall p*ssed at the guy who replied to my last mailing
becuase he was implying that I didn't know the difference betwen
interpreters and compilers... Assembly isn't either, it is a translation..
The only assembly I know is 8086 and I learned enough about the 8086
that I am about this much from building a PC from the ground up.
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However, I hardly know a thing about the non-digital side of electronics..
I never thought you could do this stuff without having to know about
resistance, capacitance, etc.  All you need to know is logic and signals...
If you want to be specific I could tell you of all the stuff I learned
in the past year.. I will not..

I probably shouldn't have written that long message last time...
but I did it to give the others an Idea where I was coming from.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4182 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/10/93 15:24 26/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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> [1] I've created a pocket watch (for a personal logo) and have been trying to
> figure out the best way to cycle the hands. My goal is to have all three hands
> in motion in some sort of sync (sec hand fastest, minute hand next fastest,

        Why not just make 3 separate object, and use the nice rotate effect
from 2.0?  This will autocalculate the first frame position so if you make
a looping anim from 1-30 you can actually use fromaes 1-30 with out that
extra frame at the end, and with out all the hassle of worrying about which
way it rotates.  If you want to make it rotate more, just enter a higher
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number.  Of course, if the watch has to move, it may be a little weird to
position each piece.  But you can always select all 3 objects at once, move
them where you want and do a Right Amiga 7,8,9 for each.  Or make sure the
axis are at the same pos, move one, and copy the data (manually) for each
item.

                Mike C.



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--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4183 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/10/93 22:44 13/ Charles F. Kane <[e-mail]>
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>Read my message next time.. I know, like I am not a Computer Science
>major for nothing...

Yeah, like you're a Computer Science STUDENT for nothing... why don't you
shut up, listen, and LEARN for a while, then consider coming back when you've
actually earned your degree. Until then, don't call us.... we'll call you.
I think it's safe to say that nobody here is interested in reading your moronic
displays of 5th-grade programming capabilities; we're just NOT impressed that
easily.

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-CFK


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4184 Re: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/11/93 07:10 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> 2)
> Also I've been trying to light my objects with a conical lightsource. I know
> that the y-axis determines how far the light will travel, and the x-axis
> determines the final radius of the light beam. Is there any way to graphically
> set the light axis? I'd like to be sure that it is just encompassing the
> required area, and not going over or under.

You could create a cone object with the height equalling the Y-value and
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the radius the X-value. The tip of the cone would be at the centre of the
light.
Then you can rotate the cone to where you want the light to point and
check the alignement and then copy this alignement to the lightsource.

>  How do I reposition the axis of an object? Its probably something simple I've
>  missed, but I can't work out how to do it.
>
After picking the object, if you want for example to move the axis, press
m while holding the Shift key down and then move the axis.
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The same method is used for rotation.

Nik.

[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4185 Re: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/11/93 07:10 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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>
>
> 2)
> Also I've been trying to light my objects with a conical lightsource. I know
> that the y-axis determines how far the light will travel, and the x-axis
> determines the final radius of the light beam. Is there any way to graphically
> set the light axis? I'd like to be sure that it is just encompassing the
> required area, and not going over or under.

You could create a cone object with the height equalling the Y-value and
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the radius the X-value. The tip of the cone would be at the centre of the
light.
Then you can rotate the cone to where you want the light to point and
check the alignement and then copy this alignement to the lightsource.

>  How do I reposition the axis of an object? Its probably something simple I've
>  missed, but I can't work out how to do it.
>
After picking the object, if you want for example to move the axis, press
m while holding the Shift key down and then move the axis.
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The same method is used for rotation.

Nik.

[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4186
7/11/93 09:40 38/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Well, now that the WOC here in Sydney is over I, as I have promised have
uploaded onto wuarchive.wustl.edu a sample picture of the AGA Sig (Amiga
Graphic Artists SIG)   24 bit Brushmap collection.

This picture has most of the texturemaps included in the 8 disk set
all combined in 1 image. The 4 disk set has (of course) only half of
these included in it.

The image was created by first scaling all of the preview images that come
with the set to 1/4 size and then putting them together using ADPro.
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Anyway, download the file and decide whether this collection is for you.

The file is on: wuarchive.wustl.edu

in: /pub/amiga/incoming/demos/

The name of the file is: Tiles.lha

There is also a readme file in this directory which is the same as the
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readme file included in the archive.

BTW, the price of the collection is: US$25 for the 4 disk set
                                     US$40 for the 8 disk set

These prices include the Airmail postage out of Australia.

The textures are available in both IFF and TIFF formats (AmigaDos and
MS-DOS disks).

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If you are interested in obtaining the Texture Set please E-mail me
on: [e-mail]

Nik Vukovljak (AGA Sig President)




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4187 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/10/93 09:22 10/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi AIDE (AIDE Kiernan), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 9 you wrote:
: That is a clever idea but it might not work.. It depends on how Imagine
: does morphs.. Similar morphs are a piece of cake to do (what I am


        Wll for Morphing 2 onbjects with different points you have to get
Morphus. That program takes 2 objects and then creates obects for the
morph itself changing the objects slowly. It is simple to use and it does
work!!!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4188 Re: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/10/93 09:02 13/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi Ian (Ian Bale), in <9307090814.AA07218@deep-thought> on Jul 9 you wrote:

:       grass   : To be viewd from a distance under 'moonlight'

        Well its kind of impossible to do grass! Since the different
blades of grass would have to shown. There is no way to full you wiht it
in 3D. Ofcourse you could try using FractalColor.

:  How do I reposition the axis of an object? Its probably something simple I've
:  missed, but I can't work out how to do it.
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Well with Imagine 2.0 you simply Numerically move the axis by selecting
TRANSFORM AXIS ONLY.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4189 EssenceII pics
7/11/93 20:08 8/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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well, i just downloaded the jpeg example pics from Essence II, and
they are AWESOME. i am really upset that this set is not available
for lightwave, it kind of puts a damper on my ordering lightwave3.0..
(actually, not completely, but:-))
If you are an Imagineer, you should already be ordering this product.
I think i am going to have to reinstall my Imagine and order it tomorrow !
(steve, where do i order again ?)
kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4190 Thanks for your help.......
7/12/93 01:11 18/ [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
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Thanks for your help guys.


Nikola's idea of creating a cone object to visualise the effects of a conical
light source is very simple ( why didn't I think of it ? ) but should be very
effective.


> It's in the manual.  Use <shift>-M to interactively move the axis.

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thanks John. I remember reading it, but I just couldn't find it last week. ( You
know what a waste of time the Imagine manual's index is, and its a lot to just
'flip' through !:-)

Happy rendering,


-Elfrick.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4191 Re: EssenceII pics
7/12/93 00:16 4/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Ya I thought essence II textures were pretty good myself..
But the rain patterns could be minimized, unless they have some
specific charestics that set them apart.. Do the textures bump
the surface as welll???
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4192 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/12/93 00:09 19/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        Yeah, like you're a Computer Science STUDENT for nothing... why don't you
        shut up, listen, and LEARN for a while, then consider coming back when you've
        actually earned your degree. Until then, don't call us.... we'll call you.
--------------
What right do you have to say that I didn't earn my degree..
--------------
        I think it's safe to say that nobody here is interested in reading your moronic
        displays of 5th-grade programming capabilities; we're just NOT impressed that
        easily.
-----------------
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Maybe not... BUt at least I am writing my tools than waiting for them.
I think I have done pretty d*mn well for a C programmer who just started
writing code last year.. Haven't written a whole heck of
a lot of software, but what I do write usually works the first time
around without any bugs.. You'll see what I can do when I release
my code.. Nothing I say will say that I am a good coder, I will have to
show you.

I work better under pressure...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4193 Shading
7/12/93 00:29 2/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Is it typical to smooth up a triangular object with guruard (sp?)
shading by sub-dividing triangles??
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4194 UNSUBSCRIBE
7/12/93 00:31 3/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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UNSUBSCRIBE

(I'll re-subscribe when I get my program finished... )
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21400.3.1.4195 Re: NIR : RPL GARBAGE!
7/12/93 05:29 14/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> If you want to be specific I could tell you of all the stuff I learned
> in the past year..

How old are you anyways?
Have you ever tried socializing?
Maybe even dating?
  I have heard it can cure some personality disorders.

--
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David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Censored.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4196 Re: Shading
7/12/93 08:12 28/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 93 01:29:49 -0600, [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan) said:

Kiernan> Is it typical to smooth up a triangular object with guruard
Kiernan> (sp?)  shading by sub-dividing triangles??

        The beauty of Gauraud (I don't exactly recall how to spell his
name either) shading is that there is no need to subdivide each
triangle.

        Here is a short description of Gauraud shading:
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For each vertex of the triangle, calculate the color at that vertex.
Then, as you start rendering each pixel, interpolate between those
colors as you fill in the triangle.  Fast, and very efficient.  The
drawback is that you miss specular highlights if there were any.  The
solution...

        Phong shading.  Calculate the *normal* of each vertex, instead
of the color.  Interpolate the normals as you render the pixels, but for
each interpolated normal, you must use your lighting equation to
calculate the color of that pixel.  Much slower, but much more realistic
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and you pick up those specular highlights you might have missed with
Gauraud shading.

        Hope this helps some.  I'm sure one of the Graphics Gems books
describes these algorithms in much more detail (like how to interpolate
over the three colors or the three normals).

                                                        -- Glenn
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4197 Oddz & Endz
7/12/93 08:52 28/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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   Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 19:01:50 -0600
   From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

           I purchased the product Morphus that is designed to morph, warp, and
           otherwise distort Imagine objects. It will with some success morph two
           objects of completely different structure. It's an amazing tool and one
   ------------
   Ya I saw that program... I wonder how that morph of the plane into the
   torus was made... Dissimilar object morphing is something I would like
   to attack.. I'm just doing similar object morphing..
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The morph was quite straight forward. First you deform the plane into a
cylinder as an intermediate target. Then, you bend the cylinder into the
torus as the final target. All this is done in the Morphus editor. Morphus
then does the "tweening" necessary to create the rest of the intermediate
objects for the morph.

        David

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        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4198 Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
7/12/93 09:24 13/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> UNSUBSCRIBE
>
> (I'll re-subscribe when I get my program finished... )
>
I can hardly wait!  (not)

Notice that this pinnacle of computing expertise, and expert upon every
Imagine- or non-Imagine-related topic under the sun, has managed to avoid
learning how to unsubscribe properly.
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_john

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4199 oddz & endz
7/12/93 11:05 15/ [e-mail]
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>The morph was quite straight forward. First you deform the plane into a
>cylinder as an intermediate target. Then, you bend the cylinder into the
        I ran the anim and it is very smooth. You can step through it
to see how it is done. I haven't had time to play with Morphus as much
as I'd like, but think that maybe I'll set aside some time to do so.
The 3rd party support for Imagine has been very good, and this week
I'll have Essence II(better play with Morphus soon) to play with.
I viewed an old Imagine video tape again an was amazed at the
stuff I had missed. Imagine is the type of program that you can
always learn something about. Lets face it the combinations are
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endless.
                                                        bill
/************************************************************
Bill Leimberger Nashua N.H.
*************************************************************/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4200 Re: Shading
7/12/93 11:32 42/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Kiernan> Is it typical to smooth up a triangular object with guruard
> Kiernan> (sp?)  shading by sub-dividing triangles??
>
>       The beauty of Gauraud (I don't exactly recall how to spell his
> name either) shading is that there is no need to subdivide each
> triangle.
>
>       Here is a short description of Gauraud shading:
> For each vertex of the triangle, calculate the color at that vertex.
> Then, as you start rendering each pixel, interpolate between those
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> colors as you fill in the triangle.  Fast, and very efficient.  The
> drawback is that you miss specular highlights if there were any.  The
> solution...

I think what he was asking was if you would get a smoother, i.e. more realistic
looking smooth shade if you were to subdivide the polys.
I would say yes.  Since you calculate the intensity at each vert and linear
interpolate, it is easy to get smoothing errors and unrealistic shading. Having
more information, such as a new vert inbetween two of the old three would
give you another TRUE color calculation and the interpolation between it and
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the others would be a little more accurate than if it wasn't there.
Subdividing again will give you atleast 2 new verts at which you will calculate
the true intensity and will again have smaller distances to linearly interpolate
across.

>       Hope this helps some.  I'm sure one of the Graphics Gems books
> describes these algorithms in much more detail (like how to interpolate
> over the three colors or the three normals).

The good thing about this massive popularity boost in the graphics industry
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is all the good books you can now buy.  You can never have too many graphics
books IMHO. :)

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
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 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4201 Re: NIR : RPL (was Re: Apex)
7/11/93 12:04 30/ [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)
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    Okay, this thread is becoming really boring, Kiernan. If you want to
    go on with it, please don't CarbonCopy the mailing-list, as people
    here have no interest in what we say about RPL or your programming
    knowledge.

> [assembly, C, fortran, BASIC and Csh programs deleted]

    I didn't want to explain how an interpreted language works, Kiernan,
    but that the "real" program (the main executable) has the RPL language
    built in it, nothing less. It's a kind of scripting language because
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    it allows you to control the program itself, and it's not opened to
    other things.

> Real3D... Make a texture languaging system in text and binary

    You were talking about Apex people, who should use RPL to write their
    own textures, and I only told you it was impossible for privacy and
    speed reasons.

    If you want to do a programming knowledge war, please get this to
Command:
    e-mail, and I will tell you how to optimize your programs above ;-)

    Regards,
                                   -- Philippe

.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|  Philippe Berard  (French Amiga User)       | UseNet : [e-mail] |
|  "They hold a cup of wisdom,                | -> Please don't send mails   |
|   But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). |           >50 Ko !           |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4202 Kiernan
7/12/93 12:32 55/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
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> If you want to be specific I could tell you of all the stuff I learned
> in the past year..

How old are you anyways?
Have you ever tried socializing?
Maybe even dating?
  I have heard it can cure some personality disorders.

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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Censored.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


>
> UNSUBSCRIBE
>
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> (I'll re-subscribe when I get my program finished... )
>
I can hardly wait!  (not)

Notice that this pinnacle of computing expertise, and expert upon every
Imagine- or non-Imagine-related topic under the sun, has managed to avoid
learning how to unsubscribe properly.

_john

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Guys,
  Don't you think you're being a little harsh on Kiernan?  Some of
his earlier posts were unrelated and flamatory, but he wasn't the
only one.  I think it's great that he's programming 3d graphics.  I
know _I_ couldn't do it (I've looked at rayshade several times- it's
gibberish to me.  My simple GUI-honed mind can't comprehend how one
can get some of the results I've seen from the 3d programming
packages), and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here.  Surely
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you wouldn't treat Glenn or Steve the same way if they told us _their_
recent programming ordeals, would you?  Don't say Rayshade's not
Imagine-related, either, because you've tolerated Mark telling us
how much better Lightwave is in the past.  Imagine is not the only
3d program out there, and if Impulse won't support us better, we
should keep our options very open.

  As far as the 'unsubscribe' goes, I think his point was for
everyone to see it.

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  Lighten up and enjoy 3d graphics, no matter which renderer you
choose.

Dan
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4203 Re: oddz & endz
7/12/93 14:18 23/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>>The morph was quite straight forward. First you deform the plane into a
>>cylinder as an intermediate target. Then, you bend the cylinder into the
>
>

        Yes, the anim was really quite nice.  I haven't used it much,
but have found it very usefuly for it's bend function.  Alot of times I
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have a logo that I would like to bend so that it is in a U-shape from
left to right.  Conform to cylinder doesn't quite do what i want.
However, morphus allows you to bend on any axis, angle, no of times and
otherwise totally mutilate  your objects.  It's quite nice....though the
interface is a bit confusing.



--
+======================================================================+
Command:
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4204 source of graphics books? (was Re: Shading)
7/12/93 17:09 10/ "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
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>       Hope this helps some.  I'm sure one of the Graphics Gems books
>describes these algorithms in much more detail (like how to interpolate
>over the three colors or the three normals).
>                                                       -- Glenn

Could somebody recommend a good source (mail order, preferably) for these
or some other good books of the graphics-programming-oriented nature?  Thanks!

 --Ross Knepper

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4205 Re: Oddz & Endz
7/12/93 17:27 6/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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        torus as the final target. All this is done in the Morphus editor. Morphus
        then does the "tweening" necessary to create the rest of the intermediate
        objects for the morph.
-----------
So Morphus doesn't do its own figuring for a morph such as that..
Hmmm... I wonder how hard it would be to check a object for holes...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4206 Re: Shading
7/12/93 17:33 4/ [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)
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Thanks
for the Guruard shading problem..

-Kiernan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4207 Re:  EssenceII pics
7/12/93 17:43 36/ "Charles Congdon, Oracle Corporation" <[e-mail]
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On July 11th, 1993 Kevin Kodama ([e-mail]) wrote:

> well, i just downloaded the jpeg example pics from Essence II, and
> they are AWESOME. i am really upset that this set is not available
> for lightwave, it kind of puts a damper on my ordering lightwave3.0..
> (actually, not completely, but:-))
> If you are an Imagineer, you should already be ordering this product.

        Well, as the Apex newsletter says, there is no reason why Essence
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I/II/Pro/etc. couldn't be ported to Lightwave (or any other renderer on any
platform for that matter).  It is to Apex's advantage (and that of the graphics
community as a whole) to do so.  The more tools we all have, the better.
        So long as a renderer has a reasonably robust external
texture/shader/etc. interface, and the company writing the renderer is willing
to make that information available to third-party developers, then some form of
Essence can exist on that renderer.  In the case of renderers that do not yet
have an external interface, or those with limited external interfaces, it is up
to *you* the customer/user to pressure for additional support.
        For example, looking at Essence you will see that Imagine is only
Command:
allowing textures to modify the color, transparancy, reflectance, and surface
normal of the hit point.  Imagine what would be possible if textures also had
access to the sort of information available to FXes in the Action and Stage
Editors.  With full object and staging information, textures could literally
change the object.  Hey, if Impulse were to publish the FX interface, some
clever soul could probably write that general 3D morhing routine that has been
discussed.  Think of it - no more need for intermediate objects on disk (the
way Morphus currently solves the problem).

        In short, anything is possible if we let the people who write our
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favorite renderers know of our interests.  In addition to making sure they
know of our desire to remain competitive with the features in other renderers,
we should also ask that they provide some sort of support for our favorite
third-party tools.

        Enjoy your rendering!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4208 Re: Shading
7/12/93 17:57 31/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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> I think what he was asking was if you would get a smoother, i.e. more realistic
> looking smooth shade if you were to subdivide the polys.
> I would say yes.  Since you calculate the intensity at each vert and linear
> interpolate, it is easy to get smoothing errors and unrealistic shading. Having
> more information, such as a new vert inbetween two of the old three would
> give you another TRUE color calculation and the interpolation between it and
> the others would be a little more accurate than if it wasn't there.
> Subdividing again will give you atleast 2 new verts at which you will calculate
> the true intensity and will again have smaller distances to linearly interpolate
> across.
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>
Hmmm.  I think I disagree with that theory.  I would guess that merely
sub-dividing the triangles would do you no good.  You'd really have to
look beyond to the adjoining triangles to interpolate what the surface
is supposed to be doing at the division point.

For example, if the triangle you are shading is part of a tessalation of
a sphere, and you sub-divide it by putting a new point at the center of
the triangle (i.e., at the point closest to the midpoints of each of the
sides), you would end up with three flat triangles in the same plane.  This
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gives you three new edges, and three faces instead of one.

Unfortunately, unless you take into account the relationships with the
surrounding triangles, I don't see how you can do anything other than assign
the midpoint, and thus the rest of the faces, the same colors as they would
have had if you had left it a single triangle.

Unless I am missing something here?

_john
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4209 RE:good graphics book
7/12/93 20:35 11/ "TREBILCO, GEOFF" <[e-mail]>
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For an excellent overview of graphics from simple line drawing
and clipping algorithms to scanline and raytracing with both CSG
and polygons try the book;
        Computer Graphics
        F.S.Hill Jr.
        Macmillan Publishing Company
        ISBN 0-02-354860-6

Cheers
 -Miles
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4210 customer service
7/12/93 21:07 11/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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a note on customer service-Newtek's support and order line people were
very courteous and helpful !
i have had trouble with Impulse in the past (like many of you :-)) in
terms of phone support, but do want to say that i have been overall
impressed with Impulse's treatment of upgrades so far-I started with
Silver 2.0>Turbo Silver>Turbo Silver 3.0SV>Imagine>Imagine 2.0 and
if you add up all of the upgrade costs it still a great deal !

i hope they continue this path with 3.0, although i have not received
a newsletter for about a year and a half :-(
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kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4211 plugin renderers,lightwave
7/12/93 21:02 18/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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with this discussion about essence and plugin textures...
a recent issue of Cadalyst magazine (for autocad/3dStudio users)
has some very beautiful examples of IPAS for 3d Studio, external
plugins which can do a plethora of things, surfaces, image processing,
textures, animation, etc....although i have NO idea how hard/complex
IPAS is, ( i have heard it is difficult) the results can be rewarding.
Especially the fractal trees !

Newtek is apparently shipping the upgrades for toaster 2.0 to 3.0
i'm calling tomorrow for mine, they ship overnite !
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oh, and i finally reinstalled Imagine 2.0, in anticipation of ordering
Steve and Glenns Essence II. I can't believe how difficult it is to
go back to a stage editor without an interactive perspective view :-(
also, i had forgotten, i STILL have the original transparency bug
version of Imagine :-(

kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4212 Re: Shading
7/13/93 08:23 17/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:57:49 PDT, [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs) said:

John> ...Unfortunately, unless you take into account the relationships with
John> the surrounding triangles, I don't see how you can do anything
John> other than assign the midpoint, and thus the rest of the faces,
John> the same colors as they would have had if you had left it a single
John> triangle.
John> Unless I am missing something here?

        Excellent point!  You are absolutely correct that simply
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subdividing will not buy you anything... the new point *must* lie on the
desired surface that you are rendering, or the calculated normals of the
new three faces will be identical to the original single face.

                                                        -- Glenn


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4213 RE: EssenceII pics
7/13/93 08:21 30/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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   On July 11th, 1993 Kevin Kodama ([e-mail]) wrote:

   > well, i just downloaded the jpeg example pics from Essence II, and
   > they are AWESOME. i am really upset that this set is not available
   > for lightwave, it kind of puts a damper on my ordering lightwave3.0..
   > (actually, not completely, but:-))
   > If you are an Imagineer, you should already be ordering this product.

           Well, as the Apex newsletter says, there is no reason why Essence
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   I/II/Pro/etc. couldn't be ported to Lightwave (or any other renderer on any
   platform for that matter).  It is to Apex's advantage (and that of the graphics
   community as a whole) to do so.  The more tools we all have, the better.

comments deleted...

I was chatting with Steve Worley yesterday and he explained that Lightwave
has no hooks to run other textures. The textures in Lightwave are built in
and no more can be added; except for compiling them into Lightwave.

Command:
        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4214
7/13/93 08:57 17/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Re: Help Montiro PRob!

{Please note, this message is being forwarded}

From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>


  Howdy, Don.
  Good to hear you are alive and well, your monitor problem sounds pretty
  tenacious, but it is likely that there is a circuit trace on that board
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  you're pressing which has become broken somehow.  It sounds like your
  pressing on it somehow flexes some contacts into place that should be
  connecting anyway.  At least, that's my layman's two cents worth.  Did
  you get the monitor for 75 dollars or Imagine?  Maybe it was a _dropped_
  monitor?  ;-)    ANyway, let's hear how it goes, and , hey, don't let the
  computer take too much away from you, time, social, or otherwise!
  wes~
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4215 ESSENCE II
7/13/93 09:42 16/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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WOW!  I got my Essence Vol II in the mail yesterday. Thank you Steve,
Glenn, et al. You've truly outdone yourselves this time. It's third party
packages like this that make Imagine worth all its headaches.

Now, if you could sell me some time to play with it all...

        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
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        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
                    employer.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4216 Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
7/13/93 10:57 15/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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> and YOU just had to point this out to the whole IML!
>
As a couple of people have pointed out, I probably should have resisted
the urge to gloat about the departure of our gadfly APT to the list, since
my gloating message was also a waste of bandwidth.

Even though I have gotten more private congratulations than private flames,
I still feel this is correct.  Oops.

Sorry, guys.  It won't happen again.  Next time the list deteriorates to
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that level, I'll just quietly leave.

_john

PS:  ISL 1.5 is now available.  Real announcement to follow...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4217 Re:  Getting textures on your favorite renderer(s)
7/13/93 10:16 28/ "Charles Congdon, Oracle Corporation" <[e-mail]
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David Ingebretsen ([e-mail]) writes:

CC>        Well, as the Apex newsletter says, there is no reason why Essence
CC>   I/II/Pro/etc. couldn't be ported to Lightwave (or any other renderer on
CC>   any platform for that matter).  It is to Apex's advantage (and that of
CC>   the graphics community as a whole) to do so.  The more tools we all
CC>   have, the better.
>
>comments deleted...
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>
>I was chatting with Steve Worley yesterday and he explained that Lightwave
>has no hooks to run other textures. The textures in Lightwave are built in
>and no more can be added; except for compiling them into Lightwave.

David:
        This is definitely true *today* (unfortunately).
        But there is nothing to prevent this from changing.
        If enough customers ask for Essence textures in LW, or an interface
that Apex can use to adapt its textures to LW, you can bet Steve will get a
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phone call from NewTek.  Think of all the new features added to LW for Todd
Rungrin (sp?) or the Babylon 5 folks.  Mark Thompson's comments suggest that he
has had things fixed/added for him.  Or the changes made between Imagine 1.1
and 2.0.
        The success of any business depends strongly on what the customer wants
and will buy.  Customers make it happen.
        Cheers,
        Charles
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4218 Monitor problem
7/13/93 13:06 7/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I had the identical problem with my monitor, and the video board was burnt out
(according to the Mobsters that fixed it for $200). (I know, I got screwed, but
 what can you do?) If you have the means (whoever's monitor is broken), you may
 want to think about buying a new one altogether. Failing that, make sure any e
stimates given include the LABOR cost, as 60% of my bill was for labor.

                                                         Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4219 RE: EssenceII pics
7/13/93 13:04 25/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> I was chatting with Steve Worley yesterday and he explained that Lightwave
> has no hooks to run other textures. The textures in Lightwave are built in
> and no more can be added; except for compiling them into Lightwave.

True, however adding support for external procedural textures to Lightwave
is not out of the question and it is my understanding that it is being
thought about.

If everyone one could, please drop Allen Hastings a note saying that this is
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something that is important to you.  You should have his Email address from
his occasional posts or you may try to send a letter to him through NewTek.
I am fairly sure that if the hooks are implemented Steve and Glenn would be
more than willing to modify the textures to be loadable by Lightwave.


             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4221 Re: Getting textures on your favorite renderer(s)
7/13/93 13:48 16/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> >that Lightwave has no hooks to run other textures.

>       But there is nothing to prevent this from changing.

Rest assured that this situation *IS* changing and that both Steve and
Allen have talked to one another about it. It was unfortunate that
Allen didn't get time to add "plug-in" texture support to LW3 but chances
are that the seaQuest people had other demands that were higher priority.
Anyway, they are in the works.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4223 morphus.whutizzit
7/13/93 21:40 13/ [e-mail]
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i've used morphus several times a week since last october so maybe i can
help clear up some confusion. it may be best to think of morphus as a
four dimensional modeler. for instance, a cylinder that is simultaneasly
tapered along its long axis over ten frames while being bent at a 90 degree
angle for the final 5 frames will look different than the same cylinder
with the bend occuring during the first 5 frames. morphus's tools perform
a movable, user defined volumetric deformation of an object that does not
affect the objects attributes. in fact, that is one of the major bummers
with morphus as it is very difficult to morph attributes along with the
morphus object deformation. so it takes some experimentation, but some
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anims i've been able to do with morphus include curtains blowing in a
breeze, cars that crunch in a collision (morphus works on groups also) and
eggs frying in a pan. hope this was of some help....Bill Graham
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4224 Imagine <-> FDPro Flight Recorder
7/14/93 00:34 19/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Ross MacGregor <[e-mail]> has created several programs that
interface the Fighter Duel Flight Recorder to Lightwave.  One of them
lets you animate the control surfaces on the plane (ailerons, rudder,
etc) and shoot tracers.  He wants to do the same thing for Imagine, if
it's possible.  I've told him that I think it is, perhaps using ISL.  ?

Ross could use some help (and encouragement!) from you Imagine hackers.
Right now he's using LW Motion files, of course, at least for the
plane's paths - I don't know what he does for the control surfaces...
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Could these LWMO's be converted to Imagine?  Easily?  Not-so easily?

[FYI - the "Flight Recoder" is a way to make aerodynamic motion paths
using the fantastic two-player dog-fight sim, FDPro.  According to the
info I have, it saves " X Y Z H P B " info (that must translate to
Position and Align) info to a Staging file.]

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4225 Phong Shading
7/14/93 07:30 113/ [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
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Hi all,

I'm studying my first decent tracing using my own objects.
Part of one object is a cylinder. Some of the edges between the flat face,
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and the curved sides have been phong shaded to produce a very rounded edge.


< description removed.....this is taking too long :) >


If someone could have a quick look at the minature piccy I've enclosed, and
look at the pommel, and the bottom edge of the scabbard and explain why the
phong shading does what it does.

Command:
Essentially, why isn't the base of the scabbard smoothly rounded like the
top half of the scabbard?


Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

-Elfrick.

P.S. I hope nobody gets offended that this message is too long.. &:^)

Command:

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end
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4226 Re: Phong Shading
7/14/93 08:02 32/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> If someone could have a quick look at the minature piccy I've enclosed, and
> look at the pommel, and the bottom edge of the scabbard and explain why the
> phong shading does what it does.
>
> Essentially, why isn't the base of the scabbard smoothly rounded like the
> top half of the scabbard?

Cool!  First Email I ever recieved with attachments that wasn't one of my
co-workers sending me a silly voice sample.
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I (unlike some people) think that it's great and more people should include
small pics of what they are working on or having trouble with.
note: The image in this case was only 3.15KB!!  Not much at all!

As for the problem, phong shading is very dependent on an object's topology.
Without seeing the objects structure it is hard for someone else to see what
is going wrong.  In addition the image is a bit small and I have no idea
what a scabbard and a pommel is.

Command:
Smooth shading is an illusion and the best results are obtaind when the angle
between the normals of two polygons is as small as possible.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
Command:
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4227 Morphus
7/14/93 08:08 12/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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Simple question:  How much does Impulse charge for Morphus?

Another simple question:  Anyone talk to Impulse lately?  Whats the 3.0
release date?


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
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| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4228 Re: Imagine <-> FDPro Flight Recorder
7/14/93 09:50 35/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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> Ross MacGregor <[e-mail]> has created several programs that
> interface the Fighter Duel Flight Recorder to Lightwave.  One of them
> lets you animate the control surfaces on the plane (ailerons, rudder,
> etc) and shoot tracers.  He wants to do the same thing for Imagine, if
> it's possible.  I've told him that I think it is, perhaps using ISL.  ?
>
ISL would help.  In fact, Jaeger used ISL to help them figure out the
staging file format, and to help debug their stages.  They promised to
give me a blurb in the manual, and to send me a copy, but it hasn't
happened yet.  Time to give them a call, I reckon.
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> Ross could use some help (and encouragement!) from you Imagine hackers.
> Right now he's using LW Motion files, of course, at least for the
> plane's paths - I don't know what he does for the control surfaces...
> Could these LWMO's be converted to Imagine?  Easily?  Not-so easily?
>
I don't know about this part, haven't investigated the LW formats yet.

> [FYI - the "Flight Recoder" is a way to make aerodynamic motion paths
> using the fantastic two-player dog-fight sim, FDPro.  According to the
Command:
> info I have, it saves " X Y Z H P B " info (that must translate to
> Position and Align) info to a Staging file.]
>
What I would suggest is that you start by using FDPro to generate a
staging file, then run it through destage.  Check out the resulting
ASCII file - it's a heck of a lot easier to work with than the binary
version!  Modify it to taste, then restage.  Repeat as needed.

If you're working with big stages, be sure to grab 1.5 - it's faster.

Command:
> --
> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>
_john

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4229 RE: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/9/93 13:42 24/ [e-mail] (Scott Pack,SQA)
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Ian Bale writes:
>
> Also I've been trying to light my objects with a conical lightsource. I
know
> that the y-axis determines how far the light will travel, and the x-axis
> determines the final radius of the light beam. Is there any way to
graphically
> set the light axis? I'd like to be sure that it is just encompassing the
> required area, and not going over or under.
>
-----
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What I've done in the past is to create a cone with the same axis
dimensions as the light and then place it in the same position as the light
source, as John Humpal outlined.  You can then view the boundary of the
light extend in the detail or stage editors via the Perspective window
using the solid rendering mode.  When you are satisfied with the sizing and
location of the light, delete the cone object.  You might want to save it
first for future use!  I suppose you could make it 100% transparent as well
and leave it in the scene.  I don't know if this would cause problems
though.  Good luck!
Command:

Scott Pack
scott_pack%aldus.com

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4230 RE: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/14/93 14:35 12/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Scott Pack,SQA writes:
> using the solid rendering mode.  When you are satisfied with the sizing and
> location of the light, delete the cone object.  You might want to save it
> first for future use!  I suppose you could make it 100% transparent as well
> and leave it in the scene.  I don't know if this would cause problems

Or better yet, apply a filter map to the cone and make visible
"hazy" spot-lights!

--
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Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
[who is wondering why his posts show up "From: To Imagine Mailing" ??]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4231 Morphus
7/14/93 04:35 11/ [e-mail]
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-----
>Simple question:  How much does Impulse charge for Morphus?

>Another simple question:  Anyone talk to Impulse lately?  Whats the
>3.0 release date?

     The Summer 93 newsletter does not give a specific release date
     but does quote an upgrade price: $100

     If I remember correctly, the price for Morphus is $70

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Ed
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4232 Re: RE: 2 questions plus attribute request.
7/14/93 15:36 8/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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-----
  Thanks for the letter. I'm out of the office and unable to reply until July
19th. If you need immediate assistance, please contact Ron Breault at ESN
396-2492 or 613-765-2492.

Thanks
Rob Hounsell

< this is an automated reply >
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4233 Essence II
7/14/93 16:42 40/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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-----


    Zounds!


        I just got my Essence II package in the mail today.  All I can say
is you owe to yourself to get this item!  No, you owe to yourself, your
computer, your pets, and you country to get this!  It is unbelievably
unbelievable.

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        It's even easier to use than Essence I  (less confusing parameters
than things like scale ratio for the most part), a rockin manual...better
than the first (better descriptions, higher quality pictures, and just
overall goodness)...and totally amazing, unseen k-rad cookin textures.

        My favorite are all the free samples.  You can start off by rendering
Jupiter, and never even look at the manual.

        I have been working on a dragon...right now all i've got is a head.
Anyhow, tomorrow I will upload 2 pics, before and after of this head without
Command:
any essence, and with some textures taken right out of the sample attribs.
(Just look for reptileskin, copy it, load it onto your dragon head, and
poof, you have a scally nasty looking 3d textured creature ready to do battle!)

        All I can say is GREAT job Apex!

    I have never ever seen any textures like these anywhere before.

PS:  If you don't believe me, by a copy and see for yourself.

Command:
                                :)  Mike C.



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4234 Using Imagine for flight simulator databases
7/14/93 17:22 5/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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-----
Hello!
        I have a wild question for all you out there.  I may be able to get the company that I work for to run Imagine for some of the modelling instead of a super-kooky/clunky Multi-Gen program by Software Systems.  I was wondering
if it supported the .DXF format, how to import terrain data (DFAD, DTAD, etc), and what additional programs might be a good idea to use.
Any help would be appreciated.  It is good to be back.
-Joe Solinsky
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4235 Re: Essence II
7/14/93 19:03 26/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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-----
> I just got my Essence II package in the mail today.  All I can say
> is you owe to yourself to get this item!  No, you owe to yourself, your
> computer, your pets, and you country to get this!  It is unbelievably
> unbelievable.

I must add my voice to yours, Michael.  Essence II is an essential addition
to Imagine.  Anyone who spends money on Imagine and then stops short of
buying Essence is one who'd probably buy a CD-player but no CDs to play on
it.  With Essence I, this makes 109 textures that can be layered, faded,
morphed, and combined in more ways than all of us together have hair on our
-----
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heads.
        Apex is definitely the best thing that has happened to Imagine
since the creation of Imagine itself.  Period.  (And no, I'm not mad, I'm
just delirious with the possibilities!)

As to the manual, it has indeed improved on an already excellent style, and
what's more it contains a sprinkling of humorous suggestions and comments
here and there that certainly liven things up.  By the way, Steve, I'm
still looking for details on that three-letter word that's supposed to be
on page 92 ...
Command:

Essence II: If you regret buying it, it's only because you haven't got
Imagine to use it with.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4236 more EssenceII kudos
7/14/93 20:28 10/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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not to totally beat a dead cow:-) but...
I just received EssenceII today (considering i just ordered it
from Steve YESTERDAY-talk about service) and it is very impressive.
Best of all are the 200 example textures included, making guesswork
and tedious rerendering unnecessary. If you own IMagine..well, you
know the rest...:-)
thanks Glenn and Steve...(and hand over the Lightwave version !)
kevin
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4237 Re: Phong Shading
7/15/93 02:43 261/ [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
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----------
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Thanks for your reply David,

I'm glad to see someone endorses the novel concept of posting of Imagine related stuff to
this mailing list :^)
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Command:



> As for the problem, phong shading is very dependent on an object's topology.
> Without seeing the objects structure it is hard for someone else to see what
> is going wrong.  In addition the image is a bit small and I have no idea
> what a scabbard and a pommel is.
>
> Smooth shading is an illusion and the best results are obtaind when the angle
> between the normals of two polygons is as small as possible.
Command:
>



OK. I've enclosed a slightly larger picture this time. ( I would have sent a bigger one last time,
but several people have been rather abusive about long postings
{ Urge to stand on soapbox resisted } ........ well almost.......... One day some of these
whingers will post something useful / relevant to this mailing list........Did the rest of you
see that flying pig as well ?  :^}

Command:
The object in the background is the scabbard. If you look closely, you will see that the edge
between the top and the side is a sharp right angle at the left hand side of the picture, while
the smae boundary at the right hand side of the picture is very rounded.

The object actually has sharp 90' edges all round. a la :
 ________                                    __________
(________| extruded, hence should look like (_________/\
                                             \________\/


Command:
The left hand edge doesn't seem to have been phong shaded, and hence the cross section looks
      __                           __
like |__|, while right looks like (__) obviously phong shaded.


( If you really need to see my object to answer my questions, then if you would be prepared to
do so, then I can e-mail you a copy. [ directly, not to this mailing list ])



Command:
I would have expected the shading to make the whole object look rounded. I can only assume that
the shading follows different rules depending upon the viewing angle of the edges.

Basically what I want to know is:

1) Does this look like the correct results for phong shading, or is it likely that I have
   unknowingly set some of the faces to not be phong shaded?

2) How can I check that the phong shading is applied to the whole object, not just part of it?

Command:
3) How can I deliberately apply phong shading to only certain faces of an object?

4) Can I make the whole object look rounded just using phong shading?

5) Can someone tell me what 'rules' phong shading follows so that I can predict the outcome,
   and hence modify my objects to produce the desired results.




Command:
> "Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car

   ^^^^^^^^ Glad to see the censorship has been lifted :-)
   p.s. Do you like other cars as well? I'm quite fond of TVR's.

( uh oh. Any second now, some prat is going to tell me that noone wants to know what
  cars I like, and that noone on this mailing list is my friend......)

        ==========================================================
            Sent by Elfrick:  [e-mail]
Command:
        ==========================================================
Note: Despite my e-mail address, I live/work in the UK, and have no connection
      with Sweden, other than working for a Swedish company. Please send
      replies in English, not Swedish. Thanks.

----------
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Command:
M_6K)\1Z_8Z%;[[DEI6SLB7[S'^@]_?BN7UWQG/J%]!INA3&))9 AN'3YB2<<
M#TYZXS]._/>*=.DM&EFEO#J,=R8IK:];.98V#]CR""N"#T*XKS,3F4(2Y(:L
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Command:
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Command:
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M,Y..,]:[3RPZ]Z.O3-')Z4$YY- !UH[8S1GWHXQT'84P YQG_"CKZ=:.2>M
MYYI"L!HP>@S^%'&>E':BXP SU.<T8!'/3O[]:/K0/K^E $-Y:6M[;FWNX%FC
M8Y*L >?\:XK7?!4EOFYT21N!DPL>1_NG^G6N[Z]3S1VJ*E.-16D3;L<OX?\
Command:
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M9H([C'X4O/J?PH/'7@T )CL*,<XYP?:ESZ$XH/7ICB@! #^F:,#UI?QH[X-
Command:
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-!Z4AZ44EHRN5-V/_V< (

Command:
end
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4238 8-bit animations
7/15/93 13:03 24/ Gary Whiteley - Amiga Shopper <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
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-----

Dave (tinman) was asking about 8-bit Opalvision anims:

Well, I made several yesterday to test how the new Interleaved Frame
Recording system of the VLabYC digitiser holds up. They were a bit of
a strange size (306 x 228, I think) but once I'd processed them through
ADPro (using PROControl, incidentally - which is pretty good) and
converted them to 8-bit from their initial YUVN format then everything
went fine. I used RAW rather than IMAGE to save the 8-bit data (though I
can't help you with the chunk format).
-----
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    Animation build was very fast and playback smooth and quick. I'm
using OpalAnimate18.8b.

    BTW - VLab's IFR is excellent! Several passes of a video tape and
you can grab as many consecutive frames as your Amiga can hold in memory
or hard drive! It should work with ANY deck, as it doesn't require any
time code or control track to locate the images - it uses a keyframe
system which identifies a particular frame (the choice of which can be a
bit random) and compares with this on each pass, building up the frame
grabs as it goes.
Command:

Gary


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4239 Voice from beyond
7/15/93 05:04 9/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi! I'm new here, and I hope that mine is not the only voice from Slovenia!
(I can see you saying: "Where on Earth is this Slovenia... it is Earth, isn't it..?) Well, it doesn't matter, this is not CNN's geo-quiz. I would like to know more about future version of Imagine (i.e. 3.0). What innovations will be include
d in this new version, will there be gravity, fuzzy shadows...
BTW: I work for company called TMR Studios, and we are making graphics and animations for national TV stations. Our equipment:
- three amigas 4000 and two 1200 (for controlling videowalls)
- two IV 24 graphic boards and GVP's Transcoder, TBC...
- two beta recorders
- and other stuff (like coffee machines and door bells)
Bye!
-----
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4240 Imagiine 3.0
7/15/93 07:09 4/ Dana Pellerin <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
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-----
A freind of mine called Impulse yesterday and they told him that Imagine
3.0 would be shipping in 30 days. Has anyone else talked to Impulse lately?

Dana
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4241 Re: Phong Shading
7/15/93 10:21 15/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
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-----
You can play with the Phong shading using the Make Sharp and Make Soft
functions.  Just select the edges you want to change; if you want the
entire object, select ALL the edges.  I believe this is covered under one
of the entries for "PHONG" in the Imagine 2.0 Manual.

This works really well.  The spellbook object I uploaded has pages with
sharp edges, but the curved surface of the page is Phong shaded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
-----
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Command:

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4242 How to contact Apex?
7/15/93 10:22 6/ [e-mail] (Philip Shaddock)
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-----
Hi,
Can anybody tell me how to contact Steve Worley or his company
Apex? I seem to have an old address.
Thanks in advance.
Philip Shaddock

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4243 Re: Phong Shading
7/15/93 11:11 36/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 10 of 36 (27%)
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-----

> The object in the background is the scabbard. If you look closely, you will se
> that the edge between the top and the side is a sharp right angle at the
> left hand side of t picture, while the smae boundary at the right hand
> side of the picture is very rounded.

Yes, noticed that.  It also looks like you have some nasty Phong errors
on the golden, top part.  Notice there is a dark triangle that cuts from
the top-left to the lower-middle of the gold piece.  Looks like it could
be a single polygon getting screwed up.  I get this sometimes, I know
-----
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Command:
not why.  One other observation - your sword looks very dull, as in the
entire side-edge is smooth were a real sword would be sharp.  Try
turning off Phong for the metal part of the sword, or Make Sharp.


> 2) How can I check that the phong shading is applied to the whole object,
> not st part of it?

Select all edges on the object, "Make Soft", turn on Phong in the
attributes.  You *still* might not get smooth edges if the angle is much
Command:
more than 90 degrees, depending on the viewing angle, lightsource angle,
constuction of the polygons, phase of the moon, etc...  Imagine can be
very particular about Phong shading if you, for instance, have duplicate
points/edges on an object.  You might try "Merge" if you think that's
the case here.


> 3) How can I deliberately apply phong shading to only certain faces of
> an obje?

Command:
Make Soft & Make Sharp.  Either Make Soft all of the edges, select the
edges you *don't* want Phong'ed, and Make Sharp - or the other way
around, depending on if you want most of it Soft, or most of it Sharp.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4244 camera position/fgnd bmap
7/15/93 05:36 22/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
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-----
     How does one place a camera inside a moving object without a
     change in relative position frame-frame such as the pilot's view
     in an aircraft?

     I could not find the answer in Steve's book, the manual, or any
     of the previous IML postings ( I downloaded them ALL ).

     I tried to copy the object's path and assign the camera to this
     new path, but this didn't work because I couldn't offset the
     camera from the path.  I tried various other things, but to make
-----
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Command:
     a long story short, I placed the camera in the desired position
     in the first frame then used 'reset relative' at regular
     intervals throughout the animation with the first frame as the
     reference.  Bingo, no relative movement camera -> object.

     This brings me to my question:  The above would not be necessary
     if I could just use a foreground brushmap (which could also be
     quite detailed since it could be digitized or drawn by hand).
     This should also effect a savings in rendering time.  Any ideas,
     aside from merging the foreground frame by frame?
Command:

     Ed
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4245 IMAGINE 3.0 IS OUT!!
7/15/93 18:30 15/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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-----

And It's called EssenceII. Hah. Made ya look. seriously though- I heard from
a friend who works for the printer where Impulse does their Newsletters
that there's one in the shop announcing Imagine 3.0 for august shipment.
Believe it if you need it, In the meanwhile pick up Essence II. It truely
is like having a major upgrade in Imagine. Buy it direct from Apex
and it'll only set ya back 80 bucks. If you don't have the cash
I'll bet your local Quickie Mart does.

Now who has Aide Kirnan's address. I'm working on this cool program to
-----
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Command:
write 'EAT SHIT' to my display in COBOL and need a hand.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4246 Subscribe
7/3/93 14:44 4/ Kent Nolen <utopiapl![e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
-----
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-----
  Please subscribe me.

[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4247 Long Postings etc.
7/16/93 02:10 56/ [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
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-----
Hi All,

Thanks to everyone who replied to my request for help regarding Phong Shading.

I now have a good idea whats happening, and hoefully can correct my rendering
this weekend.



I appologise to everyone who was unhappy obout the lenght of my posting.
-----
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It is obvious to me that the list is split into two groups, a majority who
are not bothered by the length of a posting, and some who cannot tollerate
long postings, mainly due to restrctive quotas etc.




I was wondering if posts to the IML could be filered, ie. When a post is
sent to the IML, its length is checked before it is forwarded to the members
Command:
of the list.

If this could be set up, everyone could register the maximum post length that
they wish to receive, all postings longer than this personal limit would
not be forwarded to that person.

( Maybe a small note could be sent instead, saying that a long posting was
sent, giving the originator, and subject. It would then be up to the individual
to contact the originator for a copy if he is interested in the subject, or
alternatively, he will know that there is a post he has missed, which can be
Command:
obtained later from the archives )



It seems a shame to restrict long postings, when thay can be extreemely useful.
I don't think I would have got the information I required to fix my problem
without sending the example picture. On the other hand, we can't go around
sending large posting to people who get penalised for receiving them.


Command:

What do you all think of this as a possible solution?

Anyone got any other ideas?


-Elfy.

        ==========================================================
            Sent by Elfrick:  [e-mail]
Command:
        ==========================================================
Note: Despite my e-mail address, I live/work in the UK, and have no connection
      with Sweden, other than working for a Swedish company. Please send
      replies in English, not Swedish. Thanks.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4248 Re: Long Postings etc.
7/16/93 06:58 32/ [e-mail] (Devon Miller)
Lines 1 to 10 of 32 (31%)
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-----
From: uunet!deep-thought.ericsson.se!etlinbe (Ian Bale)
Re: Long Postings etc.
| I was wondering if posts to the IML could be filered, ie. When a post is
| sent to the IML, its length is checked before it is forwarded to the members
| of the list.
|
| If this could be set up, everyone could register the maximum post length that
| they wish to receive, all postings longer than this personal limit would
| not be forwarded to that person.

-----
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Command:
That puts a bit of a load on the machine holding the list.  Perhaps a better
approach would be to create a new list called perhaps, "imagine-short".
The current list would not restrict the length of messages, while the new
list would carry only messages of less than 40 lines and less than 4k.
(I'm just guessing at these numbers, we'd probably have to take a poll
to figure out how long is too long.)

ObIm:
I built a rather nice room 1500 on a side, loaded it into the stage
editor, checked that it looked fine, and saved it.  Now when I reload
Command:
it, the room is only 500 on a side.  What happened?  I've set the world
size to +/- 1500 in all 3 dimensions.  If I load it back into the detail
editor, it's fine.  And, if I delete it from the stage and reload the
room, it's also ok.  But if I save and reload the stage, it shrinks.

Devon
--
                   ______
Devon Miller       \  __/___   "Between the lies and the rumors,
..!uunet!ibx!devon  \ \    /    there's a world of mystery."
Command:
[e-mail]        \/\  /         -- Alannah Myles, "Lies and Rumors,"
                        \/                           Rockinghorse, 1992
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4249 Re: Long Postings etc.
7/16/93 06:54 54/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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-----
|they wish to receive, all postings longer than this personal limit would
|not be forwarded to that person.
|
|( Maybe a small note could be sent instead, saying that a long posting was
|sent, giving the originator, and subject. It would then be up to the individual
|to contact the originator for a copy if he is interested in the subject, or
|alternatively, he will know that there is a post he has missed, which can be
|obtained later from the archives )
|
|It seems a shame to restrict long postings, when thay can be extreemely useful.
-----
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|I don't think I would have got the information I required to fix my problem
|without sending the example picture. On the other hand, we can't go around
|sending large posting to people who get penalised for receiving them.

|Anyone got any other ideas?

        Since you asked...

        I think that if you can send email to the list then you can send
        email to a small group of people.  Therefore, find out who is
Command:
        willing to look at the data (by sending a small message to the
        list)  and send the long posting to those specific individuals.
        The burden should not go on the sys op.  He is busy enough.

        Case in point:
        I put a message that I needed some ADPro help and for someone to
        contact me.  I was surprised at the number of people that did.  It
        was all done "off line".  I got my help and did not need to burden
        the list with the specifics of my problem.

Command:
        The idea is to not prevent you, or anyone else, from sending long
        posts to someone and getting help.  It is not to prevent you from
        networking with other computer professionals.  The idea is that it is
        inappropriate to send long posts to [e-mail]
        because it is a burden for many people that are on the list. Send
        them to the people that can, and are willing to, help.  You'll
        still get your help, you just won't create a hassle for many
        people.

        I don't understand why there seems to be such a resistence on this
Command:
        list to show concideration to the people that have to pay for their
        mail service.  This list is a great place to network and get help.
        Posting here is a privilege, not a right.  Let's not abuse the
        privilege.

        My two cents.

        Dale

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4250 Where is the IML archive storage site?
7/16/93 08:08 8/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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I'm sorry for this total waste of bandwidth, but I can't seem to find
the IML archive directory (I checked wuarchive, but the archive
subdirectory is empty).  Where did it go to?

Again, sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

Mark

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4251 Ignore my last message :^(
7/16/93 08:12 4/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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What a bonehead, I poked around and found it.  Please don't flame me,
it won't happend again :^).

Mark
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4252 Re: camera position/fgnd bmap
7/16/93 07:37 21/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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To make a foreground brushmap, just use a plane sized to occupy the
camera's field of view, and assign the appropriate brushmap to it.  I'm
not sure whether using color 0 in the brushmap or actually cutting a hole in
the plane object would serve better as the transparent windscreen; try
both ways.  Move the axis of the plane object to the location of the
camera, so placing the camera and the plane object together will always
give you the composition you want.  Then just assign them both to whatever
paths & alignments you're using.

You might also want to set the plane to Bright, especially if you're using
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a rendered or painted cockpit brushmap based on interior lighting.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4253 Imagine II Puchase... ?
7/16/93 08:55 10/ [e-mail]
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Hey, a while back (When erre Essence II that is) Was released,
there was a memo that IML readers can get it for about $75?
How do I go about doing that. IE Who do I write the check to. ;)

Thanks.  And thanks for all who anwered my Monitor problem, I can once
again work in Imagine!

Don

[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4254 IML site - new location! and PICS uploaded!
7/16/93 09:04 28/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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EFFECTIVE immediately!

wuarchive.wustl.edu:"
uploads go to:  /systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine
fixed dir:      /systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine/....

        Also,

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        I have just uploaded some pics fo a dragon i a m working (just
the head so far),  to the above uplaod directory.

...dragon_before.JPG/GIF/DOC and dragon_after.JPG/GIF/DOC are
JPEG images 768x482 24bit
and GIF images 640x400 256 colors.

        These show before and after effects of the object with and
without new Essence II used!

Command:
        Later!


--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4255 Re: camera position/fgnd bmap
7/16/93 10:30 27/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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        Regarding the path/camera stuff and foreground... You can make a
foreground object, and brushmap the picture on to it as someone said.
This may be the easier thing and wht you want to do.

        However, there is a way to do the path following that you want.

        I believe you said (I accidentally deleted the original post)
that you have an object following a path, and the camera and am trying
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to move both on the path and through space.

        You can make a path follow a path!  What this means is, you
could make the smaller path, and have the object follow this path.  Then
you could make the actual long motion path, and have the local path
follow that first path.  End result, you have the smooth smaller motion
moving over space.

        Hope this helps!

Command:


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|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4257 Testing/ IML contest?
7/16/93 10:31 8/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I'm almost afraid to ask this, with all of Dave (?) 's complaints last year abo
ut the lack of entries, but, is there going to be a second annual IML contest?


                                                           Rob
 P.S. if Dave wasn't running the contest last year, I apologize to whoever was
for getting it wrong, and humbly resquest that thou dost not flame upon me.
 :-)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4259 Humanoid objects
7/16/93 12:03 11/ [e-mail] (PJ Foley)
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Has anyone tried the new Humanoid objects?  I believe it is
made by The Anti-Gravity Workshop or someone.  Is it worth
the price?  Are they _really_ detailed (eyes, mouth, ears...)?
Do they morph well?  Could they out lawn mow the Lawnmower Man?

PJ
1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS
 "IF POSSIBLE  STEAL ANY ONE THESE    | [e-mail]|
  DRAWINGS INCLUDING THIS SENTENCE"   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   a
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   - Shusaku Arakawa                  | Has renderer, will travel.|  b dXEN
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4260 Re: path following path
7/16/93 11:47 26/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>Does the smaller path's axis conform to the larger path?
>
>This seems like a neat way to get 'chase plane' effects; make semi-random
>paths for the chase planes to follow as they diverge from the main flight
>path, while the chased ship follows the main path directly.  Or have a
>couple of annoying horseflies buzzing around your dragon in flight...
>
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        As far as i know, the "smaller" paths axis would follow the path
just like any object would.  so you could have the sub path actually
change alignment in relation to the bigger path etc...  The chase plane
idea and horsefly are both good uses for this.  Just make a path offest
from the axis, and have that follow the main path.  I admit...i actually
haven't tried this yet...though the more i think of it, the easier this
is to make complex motions than plain paths or keyframes.


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+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4261 Re: path following path
7/16/93 14:50 23/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Planetary orbits!!!

One of those "aha!" experiences; an obvious solution that doesn't seem so
obvious before.  You could make realistic, elliptical orbits for sun,
planets and planetary moons by having paths follow paths follow paths.
Simply place the axis of the orbit path at the centroid of the ellipse.

Also, simulate 'swarming' behavior of lots of small objects by duplicating
lots of one object/path group and incrementally changing the path axis
location, the path size, the path alignment, etc., so each object followed
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a _slightly_ different path, as all the objects together tended to follow
the main path.  Or is there an easier way to do this?

I understand Real3D is supposed to be able to model this phenomena; any
idea how?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4262 camera.tracking
7/16/93 22:27 3/ [e-mail]
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You need to place the camera relative to the moving object, the plane in
your example, then "hinge" it to the plane. the camera can track
independently, of course. see impulse manual hinge tutorial for details.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4263 USGS DEM data to imagine
7/16/93 22:31 5/ [e-mail]
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one way i know of is thru the program vista pro 3.0. it can read the ascii
DEM files direct, and output an imagine capable object. You need quite a
bit of ram for this, these objects can be huge. There are several object
conversion programs, Pixel3D, and Vertex, to name two, that can convert
imagine format objects to dxf and vice versa.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4264 Re: Morphus
7/16/93 14:39 14/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi Mark (Mark Marino), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 14 you wrote:

:
: Simple question:  How much does Impulse charge for Morphus?

Oh you could get it mailorder for a descent price!!!!


: Another simple question:  Anyone talk to Impulse lately?  Whats the 3.0
: release date?
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        Oh they are stating the usual that they alway do!!! Next week
release on 3.0. The problem is that their working week seems to be 364
days and that is the reason that you have not seen it :-(
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4265 Re: more EssenceII kudos (fwd)
7/16/93 14:46 20/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi Kevin (Kevin Kodama), in <[e-mail]> on Jul =
14 you wrote:

: not to totally beat a dead cow:-) but...

=09Don't worry I have to add the same!!!! Essence 2 Is amazing!!!!
The best thing I have seen since the creation of sliced Bread!!!!!
Probably even better!!!!!!

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I think Steve and Glen did a great Job and I can not wait to see ESSENCE
PRO! Give it to me ... Please .... Please ... Please! I want it for my
4000!!!

: thanks Glenn and Steve...(and hand over the Lightwave version !)

=09Kevin that is more a comment for Allen that Steve and Glen!! The
problem is that Allan has to include a hook... Steve and Glen can port it=

very fast to Lightwave as long as the hook is there to use!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4266 Imagine 3.0 on 9/1?
7/17/93 17:38 27/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
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Just thought that y'all might find this interesting...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

#: 60371 S4/Impulse
    17-Jul-93  16:03:01
Sb: #60278-Imagine & A4000 !?!?
Fm: Impulse 76004,1767
To: James R. Roath 76440,2336

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James, Impulse is considering a new plan that should alleviate your
concern regarding the lack of incremental bug fixes and updates.  It looks
like Sept. 1 is a very solid release date for the 3.0 version of Imagine
Amiga AND PC.  Impulse is very excited about the Indy as well and will be
looking at it shortly.  In theory, at least, it should be able to run
Imagine PC immediately.  We shall see.  Stay tuned... --Rick Rodriguez

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hope Rick knows what he's talking about :)
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           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4274 32dodge2.jpg uploaded to wuarchive
7/19/93 10:57 22/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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I fairly nice raytrace I whipped up over the weekend has been uploaded
to wuarchive.  I used the freely distributed 32dodge object from
Viewpoint (if you haven't seen thier catalog, you should!  way too
expensive but these guys really know how to make realistic objects)
It is a night scence with 3 shadowcasting light sources and some
essence1 noise to make the brick road more realistic.

Ignore the other 32dodge files my system was really cranky this AM and
those files are no good. (it's kind of obvious since they are under
7k)
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Enjoy

Feedback always welcome.
(Don't ask me where those Viewpoint objects are though because I don't
remember where I got them!)
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]   *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
Command:
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4275 Thanks!
7/19/93 17:58 7/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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To everyone who has given me input on converting formats and using terrain database information, I wish to thank you.  Unfortunately, I do not have a very good means of doing that easily, since the list was rather long.  If I have my way, there will be job openings for people with experience using the Imagine program in the near future, in the city of San Diego, CA.  If you are in this city and like doing flight simulators & VR stuff, contact me, and I will give you the address to send a resume to.  I wish I was in charge of hiring, but I am not very high on the heirarchy here.  Heck, I don't even have voicemail.
Oh, and there was someone confused out there: Ball Systems does not make Multi-Gen, Software Systems does.  IMHO, MultiGen is like the Brittish MG.  It is a sports car, but it always breaks down and is impractical to use for much of anything considering its disabilities.  It creates problems as a modeler.  I won't deny that it has power.  It is just very annoying sometimes, and it has major bugs, even though they are always sending us new updates.
SoftImage or Wavefront are my picks for SGI renderers.

-Joe Solinsky

PS: Hello to the one guy at Evans and Sutherland!  I told you I worked at Ball Systems...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4276 Re: I placed my order, have you?
7/20/93 02:33 9/ [e-mail]
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David Ingebretsen writes:
> I just placed my order for Imagine 3.0! I guess it isn't vaporware...
I placed my order for Brilliance in April.  At that point, it had long
since left the "vapourware" stage and entered the "final stages of
testing -- out by the end of the month" stage, where it has remained
ever since.  I wonder which one will arrive first... :)

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4277 Siggraph get together
7/20/93 08:26 27/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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Well Siggraph is almost a week away so I best make this announcement....

Once again, I have organized an Amiga 3D Graphics and Animation Special
Interest Group meeting at Siggraph. And once again, there is no set
agenda, just a free form exchange and interaction of people with similar
interests. Last year we viewed a variety of great demo tapes and then
moved on to discussions and some new product talk and announcements.
If you have anything to show, please bring it. I can't guarantee that we
will have video equipment because that would involve me being billed
around $150 by the convention center, but it is entirely likely that we
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will get it anyway (as we did last year). Anyway, look forward to seeing
you all, and here is the pertinent info:

Date: Wednesday, August 4
Time: 10am (we have the room till noon)
Location: Anaheim Hilton, Palos Verdes A/B

This info will also be posted at Siggraph and it will probably be best
to check there anyway because of the unlikely possibility that something
could change.
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%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4278 DPS PAR
7/20/93 11:26 14/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        What's the lastest word on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder?  I
        am very interested in getting one.  Is the output as good as they
        claim?  How does it look on BetaSP?

        Dale


       _____________________________^_____________________________
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       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4279 Re: DPS PAR
7/20/93 13:25 40/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>
>
>       What's the lastest word on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder?  I
>       am very interested in getting one.  Is the output as good as they
>       claim?  How does it look on BetaSP?
>
>       Dale
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>
>

        It's been shipping for a bit.  There has been some discussion on
comp.sys.amiga.graphics on it, and Dave White, one of the people
responsible at DPS has been answering my questions on that newsgroup.
There is also an article in this months (august/september) issue of
Video Toaster Magazine.  I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing,
but they show a sewuence of images at different quality....I couldn't
see a difference.  The author also made it sounds like the quality was
Command:
VERY VERY good.

        He did say that the way the encoding scheme works though...there
are some times glitches when you try to play back at LOWER frame rate IF
you've encoded the frames for higher rates.  However, you can re encode
the images for slower rates it works fine.  Also works fine for 30fps.

        Finally it sounds like the interface is really slick, nice and
easy to use.

Command:
        I am waiting for mine to arrive.  Once it does I will post my
opinions here.



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4280 Re: DPS PAR
7/20/93 14:26 22/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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>       What's the lastest word on the DPS Personal Animation Recorder?

Its now even faster. Significant driver enhancements have squeezed further
speed improvements out of the interface with the st3600A. They were at
about 2.5MB/s continuous and now its well over 3MB/s. They still need to
do some more tweeking on the input side (TBC4), and that is in progress.

>       Is the output as good as they claim?

I think so.
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>  How does it look on BetaSP?

Very nice, and with the faster throughput, the JPEG-like artifacts are
much less noticeable.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
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%                                                                          %
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4281 Imagine FAQ #3 Amigaguide..
7/20/93 12:39 396/ [e-mail] (Paul van der Heu)
Lines 1 to 10 of 396 (2%)
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I took the liberty to convert the FAQ to AmigaGuide. here it is..

begin 777 FAQ3_GD.lha
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Command:
M_[HJ'>2>MG1%AQ0P18?]^*9XWPB?IAP>M^3_WQ7]?][N*MY8<;_+/")+!)YUX
MP22PQYF7]+/._/$SK?S,PP2,\L$_NXK_Y)P]U9(96#_TV032R0?=.)Q(M++<X
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MWI#!_!*SG@T,3U3^ A6ROS=]C.>' 5LP*S,PVA?H1[4L#\F#(&)=][NE;;SGX
Command:
M&K/(&>."8LFN889HY'<989L7A^++6S^'OA -B7*("]EWFL'_KDH;H$-?FFDAX
MOSS02]]O!\.R\]M?W_SSWJ$"6 3VRP1'G/I_96NFZC6$$.;ULK.NL5OW&('0X
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MF+MT[%SJMW>9D"-PKI7-N]LYI1T,C#[,,C^,^KEL6+&:.9G3T=5OJN%<[W);X
Command:
MYK@Y.86?1/;UP1:>U=^"I'^ (^D$B2S9<HH,I,^?W$:B<$*5?9P'#5P'#2[HX
MU_49SEA1MW:Q;BJ]7B]K\*PQC7XI:R0]Z"W 7"0WP.\QQQX1_$6$3&I_J:6?X
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M7\L@^&YBQ!/OG63WTK)^WVNH87QA&;[G>[:O._15Y;1 -J$SZS9$EUC%80/4X
Command:
MV&U@)$9H,MR##W]D*@-A1T'6(>/'H2UZS._-D^=93?U5E%<VSJ-<<2S*YOXMX
MF$2K;+_:V,7K(H<>9(*A67T)[?G&9SG@2L SKA&,'@CDD'[Q:>^U@G!4B/!2X
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MU<?PNDA&!:L\@@PP1LOFOFK1*X?T/T?9>\_EN=-T8@X]U*%\$U.!TRUO[[+XX
Command:
MW6UHEP9DK2BC1@?-+/KAEA-+"7/&(L8TDZ=[DL\BX&IF%66G6S_BJ2]V'#%&X
M=]G(FXH*(,SZ[B^$U]\4X2Y7*YX<$Q9"D7C'=AG@DR/YR@T!\?-*'^D!T3,=X
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MK^9R-)H,J #*;98=#$0RMUK#N 1TWUV5OB %$ W^G]D/[NFYY+G3<Y^2Y>9;X
Command:
MY_&SRW.;SL\71T?IO>$<K"U^E $1:L66>@!QHAJS3OQ5J^H/*0)%M6'O<*E[X
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M_99P[IV+=S<L\?8G/8Z*A-J^M-[X=(]WL@&OE&^:1P,8!,4,T,"S@N7VI/OJX
Command:
M!"W'MT.D\S>?K"4(VL()"/T?5=\8:AN\&^/.P'7/O320' .O3B=IE;RA?[PSX
MOLSX7#DMLX]WCLE6=ZR',\.^:[W'N\7!V?#N<.]O>]U?_Y<46MG5&!I(<P:*X
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Command:
M7XFQN\6U9W.)?.$T/AU>5PV=SX+5N_R6K_R.QU,$V/(Z"CX>U>TRQYZ^LVWVX
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Command:
M)T[%&6\V.@C29WFQR.&$9SQX%# <P^0#X6D+';/ ]S564 $AM//UB8S03$K>X
M#6_%XKS)=,IMT5T?LI2RML)ZKLJ,)%U ](-Q@UH.8FR&A=*4)Q@,:00>@2AIX
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MB$?ECC4MCI,H:/N?U[]B*65I$V]0 ,,*GU"%!$4.7??@41K;&#&@<6C4)M.>X
Command:
M TA:7:!KVKH:&3H,*:@CK=V0&NHB?5TV^>]Y.CI\S+?UW;U/@[VR 4DFEX<;X
M05 ML@S,^MGYV;7'9#2N: WY_4GT_8;;-FG@]^K@T*NSXD2>@> _-P;QX$!\X
MP]\?M:KC@1_9W&*.#X*N#<6))P_-1P^UNVK-=."VK5D<B>03B-RGAN'5PUSIX
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Command:
M<OEI\KW>2L[U[RW>>[_GXZBAOU'+<%_<:S9F=.7_?@#N'"A_G\O0% _.SHYUX
MO(\_CN&@MN6-]>H\G1RLYKG/R]7E'RV; HNMMD'.24F6)3\ISV7T-DXZ'8>ZX
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MK,D?L0Y^[6O+VW7#-I^-67=_I5E./[>%N6!-@4^-AC@E)-<F@ &G%DPCZ@9 X
M%:DEL55@_'/ [.T.,C%![(5 L\,:Y'8UT)3SE=6MH5:NB[3EWEY2N>H"G3I;X
Command:
M2!Z/+D.O#/)1F_&V&F251K(('7J:[-N<'(I,,BB>2YVL^97-C(M[IUC@W?Y6X
M^;F_R$3DA-@QW44;^&!V0,SQ7!@KW 6,:6P*(IG9)@V?TP%#O44XD<O7 AO"X
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ME8.EM>-@!:$\EOM8@0-2)-*85 6:2$$"A.Y#K--RRA0N,7I8SM> %9HC,3A3X
Command:
M//#,NOU3R^KA,"8! ?9@1$!U\*92\-.\4.&0T(#$1+U,6N@FBRO=MC>8H<;FX
M>U,:U.%UZ'+ 1!/2[7<04@,+YM93Y]?"LQ$-"CBTXS#<7"85S?AE6X8]"RRXX
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M;7 R$ZAQK%-J[:[SC!7O'+--(M97$IW!@ B_\5P8^_C53!Q"I_#[<!##&;*BX
M%#:"G]%_;,FL&;\0>>\Y.$B2W*O?_:OT;7M_WYMK:[L\;_G^W;U>F$1Q[4&DX
M0!= -%D^A>?M4>QECS(6 =?OT$=7%?/Z, $J)'V?7\*R&__2\7Z3#/=H 7%#X
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MY(H2$G::+_A,GA52\*=+U$>])R#KPY4LY#]805H+@MJ&&#?SH4=&L"B),>!0X
Command:
M<9KJH8_MN[A7>U;GP]DZ6'GN#^.?JYO4ZGV@K)KP#K#.F-5Z2?YYN_=*CT7;X
M:2^4!8];-!Q]Q)X<^]$?.8/?ECB&W2\Y :-%%'+KHW=-[J7T%Q*"!JMO.Q1XX
M%;\9K\&2, -% U-K33L8LG0:V+IA_?<,<%Y\-Y1&KM+MDB6QE&E Q './X
M6I=A6/AMZ"L]E$E]5,<'2(>8U^\HLT65"?7S-M*TOIJ@G:MQDE4A-]TRW!_2X
M99!:A ;_**$P53"*M0_?IHS^96;!]TQ8C#F;XXJG]_9[9/@)NF]41]X6_L$&X
M>9GU/X)Y\J7=2(+19\C]^!-9H1L#5!V:O<O ])_.R\+\^$$OS.J#*F8J=5$]X
M_YR.6#]*C&IGF$]?3=M\WQI>(I=/F;7\_]3YS4ZL?#_"9JR?\S8;IYZD5M@FX
M1*F[/X^S:XZO.P03',.^74;O!5Y<6"/)'%^/EZ^8!@EG.4^@I[FAUJ:(8^.FX
MQ"SD?B&'A)N,_?S'!P>WR[7R\O>XM?F27Q!?XX99XL1-_.[F-VKR\@(ABDW1X
M[.[R43#AL[]7F1YR.Q^_RO=YDD>C,SE3>L]Z9;^IA4@(^G_DV.U8U9I'CA% X
Command:
MX1.?+R][<X:?,N&Z'%A^;O-_5Y<V33%\GW=L"GDB&'.)=OFX_=WJO,0()_5.X
M"UG[V>_S*N8\HTR(34D\D1HV]C/AY?%Q]GEZ?AY#7SU.-_>X>EA%/E7<$'R\X
MA6#V:D#NQX3>^^+P!D5ZF#\S^<5J^9_[YXH?>P?@J'CN8[:_Y*WO\._J\S[IX
MQHAT1[QZHH!YEJJ#[SC,SEFTBWE!\8EJN7:[+\9H=[>]OF?.:+?WZI=NF<8+X
M/Y-CX:HE[P!LLD,GSAKU^6''"<SDR *\+ ]B\_%-LM4$H)J3']_F6F>]7KT^X
M-\8\)P&3?<V-VS_PV=43&[Q?CY?%V^7O50@=4>=_[_RB8U0*>E+S>Q:LLY-GX
MWP@;N[4V+[ )B?.D(6%"A/[[X?#_W(3$RK3I[Y84"=^X!G./\"#C T[Y;XK-X
M@Y,4N> F^Q"GS6$@VD -&@[.R,-9Y+_[1=(X9])AB[%#7D*2B!=2QH,*;W2GX
M!9\J#-UPR1YD+[2-KJ<CC!>I$I78P8R$VYO:&5!!DUTC:L3X;\K[N^''=71TX
M.]88E=?6CAWGG!Q5^ 89L S<>N% 7;OTC3@^I]V5*OM#*E+OL0QDU%]=L)2*X
Command:
M,I^!Y!:!N/^,I>[e-mail]+O7)M<HZ!DS2ST[#+Z%\8V@GJEK&D4@BQ5F3X
MLH.C#IX @+T9JATZEX3P >8%?&B6M?14R^\%VU/ 32908Q?4(]:RT;Z8RQOBX
M4DI0Y_Z%)J72^PI1W-^RW^*/Z_Q>IXS64J@T<;_ _K<LTDM&P^-\E,K,?A$1X
M:00,4Y)':4Z6:29KL*G$8/_H4\)?J_J4^)<._J5 (O7^A4(B9_]BHBEU_:4VX
M*!X.*<*L,CW%.GNI&\7_HS:K))++63ST%6#H&&>9F..,%9<9%]Z(BNZEG25JX
MZ7">L?8#ON&?4!?!EXP*)WIVSRA!B1LH,U/L,DHW$)**9>"*.6@?HR@,I4EMX
M;34>7GEIE$FA4-C.L4!5V8G@A2+*-44HBO7QXA]JI$>"H[)I0^!->:"@-F'BX
MR_)1 %VRC4M,S^9Y%1'K>0UK_8^0Q2NX,J+4Z1\A3E,-8KM"F/P0JE"&AR1'X
MH@>L)ATZ8"<TD!Z7\=N,;@^-1&L5+T8_51-MYE/$R5Q1!LC@.I!U)7_.I^J&X
MD1R1854AYJD$/F2SN"Y\[(9/V Y\>].!@)"R9]"^[2VDTC/IY7, >T$UK<O0X
Command:
M284MRSAO>T"8KBI1\A&#Y+?(<I!'H'5>F@D\- (UA.LT:XRC_;[BY)RH97\]X
M=Q0BM7B0$%B"I5 L"TOF6&^7UZ7%Y[0O(0=!KBA>-(A&R@?G=:'Q1EQAX.VZX
M2^CE28-/@@1Q/@;<1_?_VMK:L[[?X8SBLL_A6UW#X&YP+7AM=M4+^]9IO/?_X
MZS5..@<3O(A 4XWOJQ0:*;)@.L*$R4%4SH\&=;XNAJ2,8GX9!B+&G,W">)<UX
MH& $>%$/8GD2J,3"R E?>AZ$FI90!*73:1RT=5'O\VG4<ZIV4$V 9>WPLQ<?X
M]+,5V51V81Y#5L.6@9<U(=\0EY4@"TNQ-SB% FLJ#C$.%'G"E_=9T\IYI!)#X
M- 66R-$4:.>I)(R73(9:'(RE7JGB;4+W+B.F^_*W-=CS8"Q;8E--A\]'@ADPX
M10:BF?<^UGF;6QU%,E5NX4][$%CPN$KT*<,.,(Q255_:RXTJ"JR010B-JDBLX
M+X9G3YV[]K/.5E=E6MYA$_T%AR4P\H./P[E>[.B<*CFLM%3S\PL=D4"DA;2XX
MO@T&1G 9OZ$<'X@*AI5/OQ^QFK@%':#K4+"J;*;]],ZM@S4\^*>*E--[[1L7X
Command:
MD739^@)=WWN]O_:HX8:Z*=R4*W& 2(1 HUJW^I1FX5U#^KF(=IBDXO #\1:7X
M48T<-!TLA26W0D12US-9=' 1;#M'%NS6.=GL2HE(MQ#-P6&/#JB\1RRQL"$#X
M,FA$\<&C,Y!VHHO95U=:F"$IJN2(=!J>$%KU"$^V7_=L;@E_%Y<"X/;+B)8IX
M:#YUMKC$GD--K8R9[T1/(->QOEG\,U.MR+4*3G-],VM0.$PXH<#2*)@R/269X
M5U)]3ISP+1P$ #Y/&E.87CRR/4=S>M#>^9Q(L_?[9V+S376>:OJ)B"E%&,%*X
M)GE?HL#VI,'OQ[%IM8,'J5Q/;VL@D!!^ 3F5Y<H0+I2^240UX)FXR8H,5=R2X
M<LCOE&'B$@#@ZJ,C7&]C6C7[;-_#F*#JV"EA:%QZ8C >HL,OM3*$XW!J2""@X
MXG#BL#UP09T48V-<$>?2Z.3R='3YKS.CQ?H. DK298!XHF/#=T:H<A14J><4X
M4W<REA!KBNSYD.EL<:OC,)J@;-4%CL3][6X;W1J[WY1JFFBO>'(T"1XR>GCLX
M(59@$^^Z="I%K9<&D5K*#)XYG6A#E&Z@&(A_;KQU]M241OHRM C(T^-U!GK(X
Command:
MPO$UYSS=]]+<'=& CM*;8W8AE!_QF"CR098,M\%* S6#G>%EKTL/WC/O=3&6X
M:64T1BF4D"F$^O4++X<TW=FVHXM]O,N\]?*IM03&:>4PH8XYAJ(6"GR8/B7.X
M16F.L\W Q;R.:'$,_05\Q,K^L&VB88Q62O3 '#-K<6\V*MH)4OMT \2&$H<DX
MN#DVV\;:= 2ZK)A5/;-FYESC$&#&3>XP=E :,,[H\GD<[_SV^D&ABT 'G/,DX
MU&?J(,0NR76URBO"J%XQ7.U6']!##E$MB6H"U.W9M79EE6F8W7;-P6I]/=HKX
M@Y$-%:'*N1(W4';2TE$\821NY8A\N^=GL<.MRF#$=I),EV8#+!\:K",'"[$(X
M,OJ,+-L!*X_[.>>*)X88?KV5Z[-15[:<QG4DD:U:_I:SEQW,F\ADABPO(C 3X
M9=J,8'Z91IN=3D^("4.QEG41R@QV_8^MO'/5E1JLL)U7;_A ?[Z).^E$FVZ@X
MY7)E:&Q+143DK:SV]E&:X=@0Y06/(01:-,Q9G0C/-OD03,VU(8SDR!SFAGGZX
M+UWJN]'/MV^:[R\_F$+^W>N_8-:)L?5[JM\MSVS\FY6CQ/ 9=8)O H+C=%_?X
Command:
M#JHE6Z*-HF).!4CJC Z<FL7 P=?)38D+(FYM:9B#9\A S51% F@HN49AA1BLX
M(+(KH$,:,;JZJ?/2EA;D\J3ZY>,QWQ9CB<E/&R(=+Z ,1!"!).D%+K# X*;(X
MZ5>WR%FKH]$FQ3>X>H5RF'U%T<AK\\T9>K@7.F-@58S*/8>&46#'$?:*-54'X
M4VB" SS%.1=FB6.4Z3DB\#6\[LC?Q/R5J[U:W0S _ B2UKP9NO[-TE):(XH'X
M74!Z4[K>FJ !K([T= 0>BM)D"&BHL*P/S\JGI11AH\MV0VUWJ(;B\LPXJ LTX
M4J]A!T,Q8GP$&R=E&]E@@_"N0;B65[IN\OEZF6_-=Y;:=EP[?%M\8E=.'R<HX
MF) SF2@#;I^D/8DH8&]_QHQB*F!T3SF;09TXFF*&C'6"G^!(O/ Z2ASOC#2CX
M&MAS_L&2 ZZR#GV;\(/#2MMQ2QN#0UBI.;K6O%KO(L5U9K<7!0!Q&JK\??^%X
M$6U_K1%H%5W,SY04GLN8L09O[2>J.CQ<9\6!/%KNC7]N1WX[G5;N\SLN6C'GX
M=O])"=X&ZB/@3"P1K%@GEJ\BE#,Z1SYTKB47&0OX93>MWU]UC)N3^U%V]6,RX
Command:
MR*,1389Y*"G=S-VQZ\H!H?.S8-&;]8H,;.KA:,M7SVP"?6[S $3TWKJ*4:%;X
M>6FUZWU%L5IADJ(>1S)F66$:^1H<*+7;M9),H?:KKE=9"-K@2QQ3+BRT>)1BX
M0)XS?G2VW8)J]UP/)=:55L29Y+^&K5T[E_\D.8TLJZ 3J%K:/K^$::<>V!1+X
MI?X[!6_8W?[12=4^4ZVOX13(9&K]CDQE/JH+/M^C<8FQ!)09$N@( X=2P=''X
M-]&K:";'75A4'C7<0VJ-KCX+@)B^GX:J):^3#TX-%,M/*F)=VP_6_KNWDJZ-X
M!37=IJH4*F#U$42>GW11'$N7:>2?!($Z-GY+ 6VKX'NRWCJ@(IM,*FO/T=5SX
MPZMJQT"B8H[J\Y6;9/MMQS&CZCSKE[MI9G5Z/-XN:Y5F$- ?5OI#&X'O?&&#X
M>_VA@+23@<4B=I$7P.0!.5[M<B8658,/?V3NK1:AT%]Y)Y^ZIORM'3J@\$9MX
M TAF;" IJ9BR+ZMSP6JQJ;)W"'D@:AIVER>S?C/NU4$SB#>JC09:!J);@LG]X
M-T#:Y7>&9Y*-^$WM2&D10$?I""V*#>TMY;%*JT889&AG"7L'BB2XDT45=N3YX
Command:
M89_RM@#P0HFQ"1P -^T[$-(+2_IJ0WAM63Q3TVA6 BG2.8<E%E8-0]K[3+[CX
M7;[<X.ZV7S";"Z:+C:C2@;I"2B*(KBUOL!4AC@DU@)&*&26:@[_3]4:2\?;2X
M%\(C#A@=Y[=,(^$ $\6L*)JR<7DF.]>RU_R5MGAA[5R*N)PE3HTI UJ'>K +X
M6H*6DZO.F.\@;P\V8OMH*KN6ORM$_@Q(Y^H1-+9H/QV]D<9PX7NPHBC*H=+ZX
MEU=J'I;*,Q?B&FO*O;'BIFOY&$-%3M7TP#QXGEP@S;JE7#H&Y>_)] ("=%0"X
M+6AS#MQ>L]2\6W*1Q&RP4+7X[K<\50XU8J:8L6ZY6$KFGZQ1#5"9;E::Y#GGX
MG80ET%D4*5Z#WB.;1AU8P%0S314 MGV5*<L!3S6^$AMEI\^_"T3N#ZX\['1^X
M/R$9G$(T)!P5=W"L"R0D&47)')#]\>8&$YWW#9LUF;0;L-(K,^CF%&D[\%$!X
MS[08)UG/L[A-X7Z]>TT/_ )02/<$O$.%0D)-:!)0';7R1X_&IMO_ZU-D".';X
M/:R'AP"[/?QV4PAIKQF@PAJ?C(N_A N#(_H6O: EQV=GUPP$?SD+K(M.K9JNX
Command:
MU:2#K'=JQ9-$M3TYNABSNT,3T7Z1FG:1+$*+R>2=E]<3"LU.MCI@V44VLS^.X
MA2]1. W3 D@4<[;)RL1%'"G47H'\"B"<& !AR_Y^U?ZH-M2Z&R5$=<@9FDK0X
M_5S"#JFMT/TIIMP&]EYVE'^+&N0L:U,0Y8YHZF">3IM^:X\U@?+&Y9,$\B7SX
MEV#&@D@CC#XL.DB!#:T)L_X'Q4,>A:E:%WZ+Y3M]_&*#@_UB@NJRW$9-U#HGX
M\1  TLD+=LE!&[10:O5!;E=S%<Q(8,$.%:;* ?*-2-@J@717$B+;W5 $B(E<X
MQ3 $"FKO$P_7L4$QLJ5!L-!'TEI%/0037T]V"3Z8#=WAFI!D\M!KX[3[R/Y\X
MXF6UFFB;7JZ 1!$,PP73N(4/7J[AFPI3S1DJRS3XL2X*ST'L?,Q6RY_#;D#4X
MQ.<^M(45U!E?N6N5:LR,Y+CWN[LC;*-@=:\S3GN_!0X TRD->IB7#T$.[=\=X
M.#E9:VB#LF$;6/]U_:L ^>WS>FWZKRA18.;/ $AGSYVG;%^#M"+: D2ZT8K;X
MB10$1'4DUIT-6S2H=<+MX4MSI5QHF+?$0_K'8(!T/-4C<1=[5*^WS!]F$+$\X
Command:
M<XP>8<2-,\"X [1):2F(MY3CD80VRKX;3(_AF6<""/'228:1QXRE8.2-,J7NX
MKV:2X5VCK(GK!K"R>WA18.]4MGH&")B%$,0^H&GF"#MUI&A9%HU#)83JQI07X
ME;H;0U'.;-S99ZFT4I)\Q;@5;-/$4C:?&M+XSD?/G.QB6XYWICD#>D.)7Y-+X
M4+C:#9?X;C-AVEG;RPXW]D60YTS,-&9--AS%G:BB4221<*-?/N8E4 K-Q X?X
MO6A)GR/RH!O10H<<8(&FL3P1KUWP4(Y$$@<($$T<:@XXL&(GQ&"KH JR/$"\X
M4V"VFTHPHGG96XIOH2-#$IH%Q2DDJU<"DU>JAD*;QUM6BL0H4WR7/DX7B;(GX
M9KI&(3BL-8KNB 2'@GIL4&5=S$$+?6M)*N]?GTKNSA+K%.\_&@KHK^(127TNX
MV!M>VK[G?Z"[]Z^UW[2&9/D8[Y#Q6K0$OQ^PQ!+9_JWM $!'-LB)XG8J,ME/X
M7/PPMW6TSZ*1 4;^#R-&K=<,A*'#V%8=<A)PO&#[;-<?\U@-'5)(M2-<8(H<X
MYI,<U'-HQ+$A>'K8.& ^QQ+&1=_4QW6PA##OW V!?,U-W*^H\9JJ\B 89RF8X
Command:
M4D<+.7FZ/%;YKS2VM![W-.A@.C1JNG07<<*.L="--VI47*NL))FQP.%D_S;>X
MTSZGXIT.,F?77]22#?8U;L,&)^>*9=JK4= IAI$-6>5]- [_++.4 'H'F=RSX
M:W@. 0J8@)9VW15:CD%]L*OW:M9CXQ0^Q9*&QRNVV?#KI/BG[$T(4""PEB:7X
MY$X"C95*]4(,6'T\&/\YW.NFC;PIMVEG:-14/U62D,=K_8Z\3UEFDM!<-KYGX
M83*M./S?=B%@L176JK5+]6UYV>O@J@@BDKX./O*?ED7%?*V-LA*AVS3P>[_-X
M2S]<JT;C)AJS9M2&!W>"G/W'G!ON">)Q*VLA"=.7RF5);K/8VY\[%B93<$G9X
M1V=8&\EWIO=5&,<W5IU\(#2P%$Z8DJ;!BXNE(@>FHSB%7@T\3:T6PWKX.6>_X
M*-;VC,_:4EMQR^M%@<R9%4&1HF++V/C-A\8&=\=CLN0V@9BT%_+J(J.Y 0!/X
M-VP3NB!=E\SRI25SH9;('R1S0>'WU=<B;>U0Q([ .;9L3/5IX&\T,0IO*!?RX
M^76M;;C='XT'P!\UN985L)+)*2;>N8]=2;*:4Q)IU)N.NYF\ (D(H5@ &@ LX
Command:
MLY9?C=__WO?  I))MMR9NW);>-+.#<G.MR]P][622-)&JA^_ JF:&C+(24H@X
M8MUY[N!#Q-GGQ^;EQ[O-C6*BD'VGO?4'=B_H#NX7AHW]^$54]^,GN*UN.FNQX
M/1).$9$-M:SO>]V#N-\E4Q$+94=NJB9DK3FD$*14&9]IUL"Y#\&CB&J])$3 X
ML-8"59NA3*']A#RE8$0E+V,T4TDX W4^_5L05B4RNDF/)*2> S$)[*0#Q\LPX
MY"IU5'",FJGMI9M,DJS4H)WK%YP3F6^\\>1.G<4(C!/Z;;\]DRUM4:8Y8PG.X
MN@> Y^NUFU_YM96H/ZRS-S@!IV'I"M<AV]2)SQSR8J:4J7P;+'\(\IGCO[%#X
MT:EIJ'2X20$53WJ7URE,NON"R"9B]U+@@%$7 ":=RGJAJ6#._BMG!9%Z590;X
M.!281@ N+B]ZC9$ @,T=$)"Y+BU;0RW[]]-V))ZDZ/;&0'/BD/[#^OZB$ &0X
M@2=>[,$$RGM,E<K[T?/U"^">.&AHBW4"%>VJ5X#@N>R9_9\&VJ*8E*SK@R+5X
ML6LOVEF_C]9'Z$9ILUK.,"#]4E'#FGHK:CJ]$1.CS!-*JZ1DWDFK @$KPC9KX
Command:
M>7GM3!3HS M",-74$!/EO0E$@!H:5 HS$KN?1+GO2PCIYNS**,2RH&ZA1I*"X
M>YJ.\_JA*.?<K:Z(:GF'-WT^YW#O[^R!RDE4=X=.-4%(6)1E%1P2H"PWKU&,X
M856Y$_J.H.0KC@'Z\^=O^I96$R? )[/.P<L*^()6*JJJ(P6/?./NNBJR7QW*X
M_TT$%&KRA35 B5+;&K2*'W._O29V]*;I%9P\8I_1(JJ.L0<?<6.OW$H!"*5EX
MJ0&U!BK--'T <_-4CB\ EMX%((4VMN8$MD;C[-[>]?M6&89ADIZ]D$&HW")UX
M\'$.B,,.$<D37VI'G+%G'1NY"'V,\3-='!=!16I6Q,\\FK,FF#)V]:<K<$).X
M,SCQQ^V;M8K?GHT!ZV&V:YK'>Q2W(M(9> ($A^: +)-,&"PJ]5!YO#(:+C3#X
MNA4KD'&P1%U-C4Z.!=1#TH=FTV?Z]<N<8]GF4KO;K"-RLHC<R# \EPZBOU$NX
MV[+07%8&ED$)HUL+$&^XS5VT"OCBT)R&IVF)[E+"7-4R0JIY[\'+%+$FFZIHX
M+*L5N##$XB^+^#">K7Q)<=C;\&Z3:#R!J#,&[FLV*2Q0GB0[BY Y2/#NH@*5X
Command:
MMQ\!+KK'@^_DR5#K%]_R#_H-ZM7&@VEI(5:5@ID5-UJ6!#J0TCI3%!V@R:*3X
M"62-B5]JBJ,KR#</L*A9K\"$DXQ#H&;\D2#8<TZHN?W])B*IAV4(W%1X"BVZX
M;"%"D(>?5!6'83G24F!/>F)QD;W,K:LK)6*D[XEB61!<'7&30BE(W-$[SR&4X
M[2N^:WVG4,0'H468Y-7VA!;G](05;\Z00U Y[MNML?NAS9AT0\NQ\X)/5W 0X
ML9U0"6+TI&)VL%CE#/[R@K5($=S&-#?7I)$L)=6CA6F.SD&TN!FNH2QA:'-/X
M!UP6$@UI@V)9&02ZA*L$ _GBZ"AB3A55-F\,NR9)//HC-IA.T 0I&VYD8<R2X
MW*CEW&BTTO"K2FP/>!Q\A[>O=0=F_ (=JS0.O0882Q^</@_9#)&V?ZO]5E&%X
M!HT3=$("HQPL'R1(-BHE=_FNP#KR@JAVP3NDD+<J&Y'0THR]S&9DQ!2BDNP2X
M=+R"K);0V00"U!21HS_L1(+0*GR%(7NDW)4%^\[^@/%+.)K.M2V-UV]E'CO$X
M-'0(D2C,A=2+(E:B:J;_^WUY1>#^W*(:@Z%26%9;8_B%9:%&7%>0H1M070&"X
Command:
MK<#-&Q\J!UI;>+$)%Y&/$RQLU(4*!".Y>3AX2)E)_#X^'P>(9_\X:_0&7 @\X
MNTIX%*M/A#)$,$ZPQHN"98OA'D26<;MFJ[9QOJUXYH,_QJ6.<!UY;D9U4!DCX
MY\H!KBN)!MEGF.F&S7J1;G]4H@HFK#]8:H'J,7& '[ZY2I%5VV[XA%7ZKZ>CX
MVBO ;C&.L3J0Y8A=]P^/"NPRC;-=[IV<2,D-6]OQ[5]43GXN&I2BDFLM4LL!X
M7DE@C__!MX!1MOQ8%@/(KGNJU9V4%TDJ0B")->7 K8L@KTG$> <(L-_$,.TEX
M5Q%J;6(VIBP!4+:WS\C@M+J8*X(+%G%E;/ZD7E!2X'AG<JXCQ,<Y7W=]7C.LX
M \9".R[QNN"$;4^A)\^J@P<+(.3;!H>*A.EK93NZUD1"/=FN/VC]^'^HGX1(X
M1*S7H:9G(VL(VM[\LNTSN;U<&/EX?-N\2RD59[:G8MS<.C, "NIYHIC$/6>DX
M>)?PC5@<ISH3L:7>\HL9S*R_>WH[Z9PJL%E7>"R6]1NP;QTHV)I&G -].&AVX
MW _*&;WAH.<&KL8"&].#O.=Q)-"0+\9.L@->,!--EW.%AB&9! :7<LW2!M]AX
Command:
ML>V78:5C#EM6!0-5.BE0)CMS CU\.=B+,Z!D8*3*+B_:M6R0TEN-HG26E"&)X
M<=,D0.'DY0R.CNM"%QK=2T]K EJ0&U"38J0R2R#:Q9%4<DY"'N$@2;0J$UIBX
MASD0Y]>$7B_LBD+V%.$^_BW!GXQE))[)SYG"(^F3F-7"[H++ZI)F"N+0DN /X
MDG21Q!BA(X) GH4S^Y,,<ER>1%4\JQ;-N_N.0,8-6S)K9&"A/%<74-!O*YH[X
M#-+J1D))U>(?4C^;\GV:_\P:E=4S_QJBP>8U3&NNFP9#JV90<L/QCET2CGI$X
MC$X.,.4Y(/'T]%*D+$<]$)(VGWC?A8M:1F3[C#9W_57@!+UZJM=5#.'4'(C/X
MN\3(49$:,ZH.;U8\?G=[/4L%RJM-9"_#Z/3P[X[E>GU\7N/# B5CD4]-"#^ZX
M9Y(JWU51;EKZJJE0"KU*1XMM>?O>'0[=UW*-,K-MS-,@;AN1#);58D9WM@.FX
MX*0U;#X#9)-.13E6>:N!QUX"3GG)BJE ^P*W9 <9B^W-W\/^^;M+,G8GHD[VX
M"%&@I;:L33/>K;^9T# 4@"/P0R^423W>:>2>@<?L?!O#_1+;&2Q+DP&2Z?^^X
Command:
MAX-XNN$4^\:>@26[8C$E#68A"CP2KLD9_.0W<)2@+1J&F:P61WF;@:H:'NL$X
M+L/@<M5A:"U!C^.0&2$/R:7M%UBERBD[T1:4D%B&)$M>LA4A1"1FEJB59FYTX
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Command:
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M\!"O3O]*&;#\6#!?2+-M/^'"! P6]B\UC+"_MN^T8K<?\/7HHYXP&R5\N\+_X
M,WP^X]CDL"FN!'@O_A7\/%; UXBNUP+Z-M]!3X+@'E0_8O[#B;$E?P?8O*S[X
MI@O^!]AI\-V7/U6"*UN/L/<[+#39KZX)]9&>=5C?G@D[K-8F!]B8*[$[/W;0X
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MB"@CHQFJ5'WN!"*(%Z()"Y$)&X8I$WN)N)X$*,1#MX)$00LSPXI-O???_WWMX
M;;9V!BX([T>%_E#<UR^V#)MR/"_1 &P$P@5 5P.@WI$FS=TQJ-ZS&U V<;;RX
Command:
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M$.KS8^$L5<6]4"8PV51-W$Y^C$G-UE!;QHVU'RY>3(GMU5#-X<F8WAS36*;NX
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MW-85TR2P7)W\$IIE7>^]%)4RZ*LQ^]THO4P'C*^)+-GGYN[X(7 U&@G79C]SX
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MO^<O&4,NNI-T_B5/J\J=+9]KG\IE7>;M!6J;M4W:INU3=JF_^IN?QT^JLQ_*X
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M^;/F![*[.,^8'QKKAYR1#JAINF'+&.^QS^Y_)CK2&7QLR>9GD^C35!V1=PN X
Command:
MF7)AZ>9/7'QLR'D<KPB:*X4)=$=/^F-CO#+N%IK_7@.O=D5TW@ZI?QXEJX_2X
MR!7<&XN;OI^;L'[OFAS!;^TZ^6>'W,VY=P.WK$,OYO(?_P/DH*^LB9NR_.=1X
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*L7MCUW]>^K   +O[X
 X
end


Command:
--
       Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS
         Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way
            FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - [e-mail]

            ' Givin' them something they can FEEL ' - En Vogue
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4282 imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/20/93 16:12 32/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 32 (31%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Howdy folks. I called to order imagine 3.0 today and spoke with mike H.
He was in good spirits and started rattling off features faster than I
could absorb all of them. I didn't even ask!! The newsletter shipped
monday, so we should all be reading about these soon enough but here's
what I came away with.

1. Menu's and requestors are all cleaned up. more logic to their grouping.

2. Cycle editor is gone. Something far more useful and easier to use has
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replaced it. I think it is now integrated into the detail editor, but
don't quote me on that.

3. Particle animation. It is now possible to animate a skyfull of
raindrops without third party stuff.

4. wind! used in conjunction with point 3 I can think of some cool shit
to do.

5. some added textures.
Command:

6. iff tacking

7. Hotkey access to buried requestors. ie no need to go through attributes
to get to textures.

Many more items that I can't recall. It all sounded very cool. He sounded
confident that an end of august early september release date was possible.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
Command:
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4283 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/20/93 16:53 7/ [e-mail] (David Monachello)
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
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-----

hi,

Will imagine 3.0 have the equivalent of lightwave bones?

thanks
dave monachello
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4284 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/20/93 16:55 9/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
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> Howdy folks. I called to order imagine 3.0 today and spoke with mike H.

Knowing the origins of this, I assume this is refering to the Amiga
version.  Do you (or anyone) know if the PC version will be available
also, or will it follow?  And how much is the upgrade?




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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4285 Imagine 3.0
7/20/93 18:11 24/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
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Does anyone know if Imagine 3.0 finally overcomes the 640x400 display
limitation in the edit screens?  I've been bitching about this since the
TurboSilver days, but nothing has ever come of it.

I hear that Imagine works with the Retina display card. Does this mean that
the card shows a 640x400 Imagine screen, or can you take advantage of the
higher resolutions available with the Retina?  Although I haven't spent
much time with it yet, Vertex 2.0 looks interesting if for no other reason
than it queries the display database and opens an edit screen according to
your WB size.  Nice.
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Speaking of upgrades, I just called Black Belt Systems (800-852-6442) and
ordered the ImageMasterRT upgrade, which should be shipping "in about a
week."  The cost: $25.  The RT stands for retargetable.  They say it's
their biggest upgrade yet and I'm curious to see it.  I got the impression
that they too only use a 640x400 screen, but they offered "panning" as an
answer that was supposed to satisfy me.  We'll see.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
Command:
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
 Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4286 Making arches
7/20/93 19:46 18/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi, I'm new to imagine.

I have a problem when I try to make a arch.( I want to make a roman
bath scene).

To get a perfect arch, I create a path and the using the conform to
sphere I try to bend the path into a perfect arc.  But the path won't
bend.  I have tried it many times with different variables but still
to no avail.  Once I'd got the path to bend I would then extrude the
shape alond the path and hence get a arch :). Obvioulsy I am doing something wrong.
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Can anyone tell me how to make a perfect arc/arch.

thanks

Tef
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4287 3.0, particle,photoshop
7/20/93 20:58 11/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
Lines 1 to 10 of 11 (90%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

I hope Impulse got a good look at Lightwave 3.0 when they worked on
imagine 3.0-it is quite incredible-the modeler has completely been
remade to be quite usable.
For those interested in Imagine's particle system-check out the latest
Computer Graphics World-it shows how other platforms are using particle
systems for modeling clouds, explosions, etc.
Finally, does any one out there use the new Adobe photoshop 2.5 ?
did they ever add support for the IFF *24* standard ? (james hastings trew ?)

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Command:
kevin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4288 Re: Imagine 3.0
7/21/93 01:24 19/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
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-----
Kent Kalnasy wrote:

> I hear that Imagine works with the Retina display card. Dose this mean that
> the card shows a 640x400 Imagine screen, or can you take advantage of the
> higher resolutions available with the Retina?

Yes, you can take advantage of the higher and flicker free resolutions.
At least you can with the Domino, but I am sure that it also works with
Retina and Picasso and Piccolo (my next card) and maybe even Merlin.

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Bye
   Oli

__________________________________________________________________________
     /// Oliver Eichhorn, CS graduates
    /// Fraunhofer Institute For Computer Graphics, Darmstadt (FhG/IGD)
\\\/// eMail:[e-mail], voice: ++49 6151 48200 or ++49 6022 7752
 \XX/ "Things are more like they are now than they ever were before"

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4289 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/20/93 22:48 13/ [e-mail] (Michael Linton)
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Oh, goodie... So, I guess this means now all our cycle objects will be
useless, as were all our Forms objects from 1.1 to 2.0?  Damn well hope
not, or I'm going to be a might bit ticked off.  What's the upgrade
price?  $100 US?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark
recesses of my mind...  Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as
my light source) to find all that buried info again..."
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Command:

                      -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4290 Re: Making arches
7/21/93 07:14 38/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 38 (26%)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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Don't try to extrude an arch along a path; there's an easier way.

Make an outline of the arch in the front view.  As a guide, I recommend
adding a primitive Disk, then deleting the center point and the
perimeter points of the lower half.  Place this object at about head
height for your arch, then add two points at floor level, parallel with
the outermost points of the Disk.  Add edges to give an outline of the
inner part of the arch.  Move the object's axis to floor level, centered
on the x-axis.  Now copy the object, paste it, pick the new copy, and
scale it up in the x- and z-axes to the size you want for the outline of
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Command:
the outer part of the arch.  Pick both objects, and join them.

At this point you can decide how much detail you want in your arch.  Do
you want to model the individual stone blocks, or rely on textures and
brushmaps?  Add whatever faces you think you need; I did one of these
arches with individual blocks, including coloring the mortar darker than
the blocks using Pick Faces and the Attributes requester.

After you've added faces to suit the level of detail you want, simply
extrude the object along the y-axis to the desired depth of the finished
Command:
arch.  If you're going to be making several different arches (windows,
etc.) save the original outline pieces for different extrusions.

Another method (especially for Roman architecture) is to actually model
some standard blocks: keystone, 15-degree curved block, square block,
rectangular block, column, pedestal, capital, etc., then stack them up to
build whatever you want.  Electronic version of your old wooden block set.

You might also take a look at the dungeon door I uploaded to wuarchive.
It has the sort of arched frame I think you're talking about.
Command:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4291
7/21/93 07:33 384/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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~s Roll Call


A hearty welcome, Imagineers!  :-)

It's that time again. Time to splash the IML Directory up
for your perusal. Check out your account and let me know if
your address need an update.

Also remember the address to UNSUBSCRIBE is:
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Command:
[e-mail]
and takes one business day to complete. You will receive
a verification note from me upon your UNSUB.


Dave Wickard  [phone]   "Or as you can see, it could
[e-mail]        more accurately be called the
[e-mail]       Bermuda _Rhombus_."
                                Cliff's Mom on CHEERS

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4292 2.0, 3.0 or mmmmmm
7/21/93 10:04 13/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hello,
    I am seriously interrested in imagine and am just about
ready to purchase. I am not sure wether I should wait until 3.0 is
out or chance spending more money buying 2.0 and upgrading to 3.0
later.
    I am of course duying to get started and cannot find a demo
version to sustain my enthusiasm. Any help would be appreciated.



-----
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                                                    Thank You
                                                       Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4293 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/21/93 08:59 5/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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-----
I too echo the concern over whether any pre-made dydle objects will be obsolete
. As these have easily taken up the most time to build for me. On the other han
d, perhaps older cycle objects can simply be converted to the new format. (yeah
 right)
                                                        Rob
-----
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4294 Call for Renderings
7/21/93 09:19 25/ [e-mail] (Philip Shaddock)
Lines 1 to 10 of 25 (40%)
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Hi Imagineers,

I'm in the finishing stages for a book called 3D Modeling Lab
from the Waite Group Press. It will be bundled with Imagine 2.0
for the PC.

I'm looking for some outstanding examples of Imagine scenes or models
to be included in a four-color insert at the center of the book.
You will be credited and will get a free copy of the book. Particularly
interesting or challenging models might warrant a short written blurb
-----
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about special techniques used, hints, tips, that sort of thing.

Please reply to my email address rather than the list or call me
at [phone].

In anticipation of general questions: The book teaches 3D modeling using
Imagine as the laboratory. It features the work of Mike Miller of POV-RAY
fame and Allan Henry. I'm the author of Multimedia Creations, another
Waite Group Press work. The book will include a $100 coupon for the upgrade
to Version 3. Version 2 will probably be bundled uncrippled. A 3D Animation
Command:
Lab book is planned if the first book is successful. An Amiga user will be
able to use the book's examples.

Philip Shaddock

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4295 Re: Roll Call/Imagine 3.0 etc
7/21/93 11:01 25/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Present.  ;) (in reference to roll call, haha)

What?  No kholland?  Sure is a lot quieter around here these days :)  Ahhh.


About 3.0 rumors:  I have a friend whose sister is dating a guy that has a
distant uncle who says he heard from a reliable source that...3.0 will
have distributed rendering capabilities.  Doesn't 2.0 kindof do that, one
frame here, one frame there.  Oh well, thats what I heard.  Maybe it will
-----
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be true distributed rendering, with licenses for renderers, etc.  Or perhapes
they were talking about Robert Cooks concept of distributed ray tracing.
That almost makes sense along with the rumors about motion blur and depth of
field.  I hope you can turn it off if that is what they are doing.

I hope textures as well as IFFs will stick to polygons.  It would be nice if
that moo cow could mooove his head without moooooving the texture axis for
the head.


Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4296 SUBSRIBE
7/21/93 11:31 2/ [e-mail] (Ron Suverkrop)
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-----
please subscribe me.  The correct address for subscriptions did not render any results in a week, so I am attempting to join the list this way.  Appologies for the wasted bandwidth.
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4297 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/21/93 12:24 31/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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"Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]> writes:

  I too echo the concern over whether any pre-made dydle objects will be
  obsolete . As these have easily taken up the most time to build for me. On
  the other han d, perhaps older cycle objects can simply be converted to the
  new format.  (yeah right)
                                                        Rob
---

Increased functionality and new features come at a price. "Bones" is an
-----
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extremely powerful animation utility that in many ways makes "Cycles"
obsolete. I doubt there will be a button push conversion for older cycle
objects, but personally, I'd rather have the free form deformation
capablility that bones promises and be stuck with re-doing my cycle
objects. I applaud Impulse that they would jump ahead and incorporate these
new concepts even though it may come at obsoleting older ways of doing
things. It is a hard decision to cut backward compatibility but sometimes,
one has to in order to move ahead and remain competitive. Computer Graphics
technology is leaping ahead leaving many behind eating dust; I don't like
the taste of dirt myself :)
Command:

        David

        David M. Ingebretsen
        Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
        [e-mail]

        Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                    opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
                    encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
Command:
                    employer.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4298 Hi-Res workspaces
7/21/93 13:31 5/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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Hello all!
        God, it is great to be on the net, isn't it?  When I have a question like my subject, it is nice to know that someone has an answer.
        Does Imagine/ Will Imagine support a screen resolution of around 1024x1024 for a work environment?  It would be nice to hear that.  I am still working on this proposal thing to get my company to use Imagine over Multi-Gen version 13 (Hi Dave Ingbertsen!!!  I know you use this piece of software too.), since it seems to me that with a few 3rd party programs, $700 worth of software would replace a $100,000 MultiGen program which has huge bugs and a slow interface.  Now the trick is to talking them into Vista Pro....
-JOe Solinsky
Ball Symptoms
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4299 Bye, bye
7/21/93 13:41 9/ [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)
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I've been laid off and will not be able to continue archiving the IML. In
fact I lose my account in about 2 minutes. I apologize for any problems
this causes.

I will upload what I have to wuarchive...

Dave, please take me off the list as well...

David Ingebretsen
-----
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4300 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/21/93 14:43 17/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only person to use the cycle editor like
I did.  For instance, I once built a spaceship that retracted its landing
gear and closed its doors as part of a cycle script.  That way, all I had to
do in stage was load it, move it upward and put it through a cycle.

The "different"thing was that all of the parts were connected to each other
via null axes which resized between cells.  I guess this means that I wasn't
using the editor as it was meant.  It always seemed more powerful as a way
to make repetitive movements standard to the object rather than having to
repeat them in stage.  I mean, if you can program those movements ONCE in
-----
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cycle, that is preferable doing them again and again in stage.  And small
changes weren't hard to make-one just increases the cells between keys.

Does 3.0, to anyones knowledge, provide for set-ups such as the one I
described?  Just curious.

                                                  Rob
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4301 Re: 2.0, 3.0 or mmmmmmm
7/21/93 19:18 23/ [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)
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Lesk asks:
>Hello,
>    I am seriously interrested in imagine and am just about
>ready to purchase. I am not sure wether I should wait until 3.0 is
>out or chance spending more money buying 2.0 and upgrading to 3.0
>later.
>    I am of course duying to get started and cannot find a demo
>version to sustain my enthusiasm. Any help would be appreciated.

Greetings future Imagineer!
-----
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Command:

I'm looking at the Creative ad in the May 1993 AmigaWorld and I see that
Imagine 1.1 costs 79.95.  You can get an upgrade from Impulse to Imagine
2.0 for $100.00.  Or you can buy Imagine 2.0 from Creative for 179.00.
Hmmm, 79.95+100.00 versus 179.00 -- no bargin to be had there!

IMO the upgrade to version 3.0 will probably work the same way.  You won't
save any money by waiting.  Get started now!

        Mike
Command:
--
Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Laboratory
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4302 Imagine 3.0 News (SPOILER)
7/22/93 00:59 36/ [e-mail] (Mark Prenter)
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Hi, I've read all sorts of questions recently on the mailing list about what
features Imagine 3.0 will have.  Imagine (pun intended) my surprise when I
got the Impulse newsletter in the mail today.  For those of you who can't
wait to hear about features and without spoiling the whole newsletter, I'll
list a some of the main features mentioned in the newsletter.

New Features ------

     - Bones (yeah!!)
     - Brush Tacking     "No more sliding textures."  <-- Direct quote.
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     - Kinematic Movements
     - New Font and Image Editor
     - Hierachy Control and Pop up Action Bars
     - Sound
     - Amiga AA chip support
     - Improved Anti-Aliasing
     - Deformations (taper, twist, bend, shear and pinch)
     - Enhanced forms editor
     - Field rendering
     - Particles
Command:
     - Depth of field

Thats most of the main, new features.  The newsletter states the Imagine 3.0
has over 200 new features, and they constantly push the fact that this is a
QUALITY product.  The hope for a release date of the end of August.  They are
taking orders now.  The planned price is $649.  The price of the upgrade is
still $100.

I hope this information helps a few people get a better nights sleep. :-)

Command:
                                                                Mark

--
[e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4303 Re: Call for Renderings
7/22/93 01:32 11/ [e-mail]
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Philip Shaddock writes:
> The book will include a $100 coupon for the upgrade
> to Version 3. Version 2 will probably be bundled uncrippled.

Unless I'm misunderstanding this, a "$100 coupon" for the 2.0-->3.0
upgrade suggests that the upgrade cost will be significantly more than
$100...anyone know what it might be?

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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 (global apology: I lost several days of email this week)
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4304 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (SPOILER)
7/22/93 05:19 36/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> New Features ------
>
>      - Bones (yeah!!)
>      - Brush Tacking     "No more sliding textures."  <-- Direct quote.
>      - Kinematic Movements
>      - New Font and Image Editor
>      - Hierachy Control and Pop up Action Bars
>      - Sound
>      - Amiga AA chip support
>      - Improved Anti-Aliasing
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>      - Deformations (taper, twist, bend, shear and pinch)
>      - Enhanced forms editor
>      - Field rendering
>      - Particles
>      - Depth of field

Great!
These all sound wonderful and I will probably upgrade again...
But where is "Improved scanline render engine" ??

Command:
I have been working on a production animation for the last couple weeks and
it is minimally 1500 frames.  Lightwave is giving me an average of 5min per
frame.  I can't afford to have frame times any worse than that with my
current machine situation, 5min/frame is bad enough as it is.


             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

Command:
--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4305 imagine 3.0
7/21/93 23:30 6/ [e-mail]
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-----
Also you can get rid of your Lissa generated splines, as well as those
from that flight simulator thing. A new internal data format for splines
makes those obsolete. ( a function of the ease in- ease out newness?)
Also the StageGen program that ships with Morphus will not work, ditto
for any other software that uses/alters the staging file, as it is taking
an entirely new form. i got this today from impulse.
-----
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4306 Re: Bye, bye
7/22/93 05:32 44/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> I've been laid off and will not be able to continue archiving the IML. In
> fact I lose my account in about 2 minutes. I apologize for any problems
> this causes.
>
> I will upload what I have to wuarchive...
>
> Dave, please take me off the list as well...
>
> David Ingebretsen
-----
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Well this certainly sucks!

note:  In college one of my main inspirations was the Evans & Sutherland work
on realtime vehicle dynamics.  A lot of you may have seen the clips of the
BMW 3 series simulator that had the car driving around, over some bumps, over
a ramp, etc.   I have since found out (through the IML) that David was one
of the people behind that work.

Command:
"The BMW dynamics are what I helped develop. I co-authored some notes that
 were handed out at a mini course at SIGGRAPH in 1989. The title was "Notes
 on Real-Time Vehicle Simulation". They were in "Implementing and Interacting
 with Real-Time Microworlds", Course notes 29 for SIGGRAPH 89. If nothing
 else, it has a comprehensive bibliography on real-time dynamics,
 integration, control systems, and human factors. We drew heavily on the U.
 of Iowa work by Ed Haug and Dae Sung Bae. Also, I helped with a conference
 that was held in Snowbird Utah specifically on methods for integrating
 Differential Algebraic Equations in real-time. The reference is "Real-Time
 Integration Methods for Mechanical Simulation" ISBN 3-540-53280-3 . ISBN
Command:
 0-387-53280-3. Published by Springer-Verlag."

I hope we here from him soon.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4307 Re: Bye, bye
7/22/93 06:02 25/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|I've been laid off and will not be able to continue archiving the IML. In
|fact I lose my account in about 2 minutes. I apologize for any problems
|this causes.
|
|I will upload what I have to wuarchive...
|
|Dave, please take me off the list as well...
|
|David Ingebretsen
|
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        Wow!  Reality hits home hard.  Intergraph has had some hard times
        as well and the future for some of us here is uncertain.  That is one
        of the reasons I'm trying to get set up as an animator;  one more
        possbile way to make a living.

        They say this is the era of the entrepreneur.  Good luck to you
        David and everyone else on the list.

        Dale
Command:
       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4308 Re: imagine 3.0
7/22/93 07:55 23/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Text item: 7/22/93 2:30AM (IA5Text Enclosure)

I hate to add more gas to the Rumor machine but...

>Also you can get rid of your Lissa generated splines, as well as those
>from that flight simulator thing. A new internal data format for splines
>makes those obsolete. ( a function of the ease in- ease out newness?)
>Also the StageGen program that ships with Morphus will not work, ditto
>for any other software that uses/alters the staging file, as it is
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>taking an entirely new form. i got this today from impulse.

What about the textures?  Will essence still function with 3.0?

I can't believe some of you would actually order this now 8-)
After Drew and the emplant, and all the other "great" things that have
turned out to be not so great.  I will wait and see what USERS say before
I plunk down that kind of cash.  Of course that makes you impulse buyers
(hey, I made a funny!) test cases for the rest of us.

Command:
Adam B


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4309 $100 upgrade coupon
7/22/93 08:14 14/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I just got off the phone with impulse, (they were actually curteous and
helpful for once - 'imagine' that!).  Anyway, they said that "they have not
commited to any release date for 3.0 but are close" and the same for an
upgrade price - but it will "probably" be $100.  I also asked about the
imagine book think with the $100 2-0->3.0 upgrade coupon, and the guy said
that "anyone who is offering an upgrade coupon is not doing it through us,
so we wouldn't know anything about it." My guess is that waite group will
buy imagine 3.0 and sell it direct to those that buy the book.  Maybe the
person that put the original post on here could clear it all up.

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                                                        Rob


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4310 Scene too long to render
7/22/93 16:49 37/ [e-mail] ()
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Hello people !

It's the first time I post a message to this mailing-list. I've just subsribed
to it yesterday, and I have only read the FAQ and the first ("Initiation")
message.
I use Imagine from the beginning, I've used Sculpt first, then a little bit
Turbo Silver, then Imagine. I've produced about 10 commercials, one for the
swiss TV, and others for different company, whose one was a watch-maker. Maybe
you've seen a picture I've done in Amigaworld, in an ad for the IV24 (early
one), showing a watch. Now, I'm working with some other friends for a "artistic"
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(means non-commercial) film, including real characters recorded  then digitized,
who will be mixed with 3D sceneries.
I now work fro two months for Silicon Graphics, here in Switzerland, in
technical support.

Here is my problem : I have a large animation to render. It's a shot for the
film a spoke about, it last 12 seconds (300 images).  The scene contains an
arena, bump-textured and color-mapped (nice effect), a pool in the middle with
an altitude map (to have a water-like effect), and a sort of metallic flower in
the middle of the pool, containig many cycle-objects, textures, color and
Command:
reflect maps.
I tried to render an image in 724x566. It takes 70 hours ! It means that with 3
days per image, then 100 images per year : total 3 years.
I've got an A3000 with a GVP 68040 accelerator, 22 MB RAM. I've noticed that the
memory goes less than 1 MB. Does it affect the rendering time ? What is long to
render (ray tracing)? Tetxures, Brush mapping, heavy objects, cycle objects,
refraction (the pool). Hoe could I reduce the time ?
I've just installed GigaMem, to not be so low with the memory. I'm waiting for
the result.
Any advice, comment will be helpful.
Command:
Thanx

Robin




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4311 Re: imagine 3.0
7/22/93 09:39 45/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
>
> Text item: 7/22/93 2:30AM (IA5Text Enclosure)
>
> I hate to add more gas to the Rumor machine but...
>
> >Also you can get rid of your Lissa generated splines, as well as those
> >from that flight simulator thing. A new internal data format for splines
> >makes those obsolete. ( a function of the ease in- ease out newness?)
> >Also the StageGen program that ships with Morphus will not work, ditto
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> >for any other software that uses/alters the staging file, as it is
> >taking an entirely new form. i got this today from impulse.
>
Hmmm, and here I thought I was done with ISL.  I'll really be suprised
if they change the staging file format radically - it's been pretty much
the same from 0.9B thru the present.  Just new chunks.

I look at this as a challenge - if they modify the format, I'll reverse-
engineer it as well.  All they'll do is introduce incompatibility where
it doesn't have to be.
Command:

If a company like Impulse ships products which lack features which people
really want, they ought to expect 3rd parties to fill the gap!

> What about the textures?  Will essence still function with 3.0?
>
I could picture Mike H. changing stuff around just so that third-party
products don't work any more.  I hope he isn't that petty!  I don't make
a dime off of ISL, and Essence is the best thing that's happened to
Imagine since Imagine was born.
Command:

> I can't believe some of you would actually order this now 8-)
> After Drew and the emplant, and all the other "great" things that have
> turned out to be not so great.  I will wait and see what USERS say before
> I plunk down that kind of cash.  Of course that makes you impulse buyers
> (hey, I made a funny!) test cases for the rest of us.
>
I always wait a couple of months to get my upgrade - Impulse has this
tacky habit of releasing their first couple of upgrades with the same
version number.  Remember the 2.0s?  The file size chart?  :-)
Command:

> Adam B
>
_john

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4312 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (SPOILER)
7/22/93 10:01 50/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> > New Features ------
> >
> >      - Bones (yeah!!)
Hmmm.  I wonder where these will go?  Surely not FX in the stage editor?  I
wonder if they haven't added a Bones editor to replace the Cycle editor?

> >      - Brush Tacking     "No more sliding textures."  <-- Direct quote.
What happens now is that you set up a 3D volume where your texture applies,
and it is projected linearly through the volume, and appears on the object
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where'ever it intersects.  This looks darn strange when you move around
the individual polys in your object, as in the explode effect.  What I would
like to see would be something that started as a volume, but then "stuck"
to the polygons it first intersected.  Wonder what they'll really do?

> >      - Kinematic Movements
> >      - New Font and Image Editor
> >      - Hierachy Control and Pop up Action Bars
Interesting.

Command:
> >      - Sound
Limited, I bet.  If it's more than the ability to trigger an IFF sound from
their proprietary anim format I'll be astonished.

> >      - Amiga AA chip support
Use Firecracker, Use AA buttons?

> >      - Improved Anti-Aliasing
> >      - Deformations (taper, twist, bend, shear and pinch)
Sound like some of the Morphus features.  Wonder if they rolled it into Imagine?
Command:

> >      - Enhanced forms editor
> >      - Field rendering
Cool.

> >      - Particles
My bet is on zero-size polygons, a new primitive ala the CSG sphere.  I also
predict that "Wind" is an FX.

> >      - Depth of field
Command:
>
Don't they alreadyt have that, via the camera size?

> Great!
> These all sound wonderful and I will probably upgrade again...
I'll upgrade too, but it's going to have to be pretty darn good to keep me
from exploring Toaster 3.0 when I get it.

_john

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4313 Re: 3.0, particle,photoshop
7/22/93 10:06 15/ [e-mail]
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>> Finally, does any one out there use the new Adobe photoshop 2.5 ?
>> did they ever add support for the IFF *24* standard ? (james hastings trew ?)
>>
>> kevin

Yes, Photoshop 2.5 supports IFF 24.  One of the first things I did with 2.5 was
read in an IFF24 made with Imagine and look at it.  It was the first time I had
ever seen my own rendering in 24 bit mode. Now I use Photoshop to make TIFF
files that I use as altitude maps, etc. in Imagine PC.  It works great.
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                                Marshall

Speaking for myself and not my employer, of course.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4314 Imagine(3.0)ations ...
7/22/93 11:11 21/ [e-mail] (Isaac Psycho Guajardo)
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If only "new features" and "speed" where the issues regarding Imagine 3.0 !!!,
but what about a relaible Slice command that would give accurate boolean
operations without error messages or crashes, and clean objects of course. And
what about transparency without getting a "black blob" because of a faulty
algorithm that issues black when something goes wrong or infinitum. And
speaking about filter and textures and fog and backdrop images and reflectance -
they don't like each other under certain (common) circumnstances. And ... on,
and on, and on ... if those "fixes" are done I'll get the upgrade but still
would keep a close eye on "features" like : Soft shadows on scanline option,
shadow proyect selection by object, pseudo-global reflect maps individualy
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selected by object available on scanline, a very muchimproved control with
paths on stage, a "workable" action editor (ie. cut and paste, frame extend or
reduce without starting all over, etc.) .... besides all the ones already
mentioned on the newsletter (Did I read light flares???). With Real 3D 2.0 and
Lightwave on the market NOW, Impulse better get it done ... fast !!! and get it
gooood !!! ... specialy for all of us on production ... what do you think ? I
think I see a Toaster 4000 in my near future =8-)

    Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo

Command:
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4315 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (SPOILER)
7/22/93 11:40 35/ [e-mail] (Mark Prenter)
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> David Watters writes:
>
> To: [e-mail]
>
> > New Features ------
> >
> >      - Bones (yeah!!)
> >      - Brush Tacking     "No more sliding textures."  <-- Direct quote.
> >      - Kinematic Movements
> >      - New Font and Image Editor
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> >      - Hierachy Control and Pop up Action Bars
> >      - Sound
> >      - Amiga AA chip support
> >      - Improved Anti-Aliasing
> >      - Deformations (taper, twist, bend, shear and pinch)
> >      - Enhanced forms editor
> >      - Field rendering
> >      - Particles
> >      - Depth of field
>
Command:
> Great!
> These all sound wonderful and I will probably upgrade again...
> But where is "Improved scanline render engine" ??
>

Ok, one thing I forgot to mention was Soft Edge light sources and shadow
mapping.  This makes it possible to have shadows in Scanline and Full Trace.
I'd call that an improvement!

                                                            Mark
Command:

--
[e-mail]


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21400.3.1.4316 Re: Scene too long to render
7/22/93 11:44 19/ [e-mail] (Peter Mancini)
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 > I tried to render an image in 724x566. It takes 70 hours ! It means that with 3
 > days per image, then 100 images per year : total 3 years.

 > Any advice, comment will be helpful.
 > Thanx
 >
 > Robin
 >
        My advice is to do the render.  Tour art gallaries with the
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 machine rendering the movie, in essence the machine becomes performance
 art.  You'll make millions as the rich and snobby shell out the big
 bucks to see this new form of 'ART'.  You could call it "The Best for
 Last", at the end of the three year tour you show the 12 second clip.
 Such Irony!

 --Pete


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4317 Re: imagine 3.0
7/22/93 12:31 19/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> If a company like Impulse ships products which lack features which people
> really want, they ought to expect 3rd parties to fill the gap!

I hate to always bring up lightwave here, but this is the reason I switched
from Imagine to Lightwave originally in the middle of a project.  I felt
constrained (like when using a Mac) that I couldn't write code that modified
the scene and motion data.
Since then there have been a zillion and one reasons for sticking with
Lightwave.

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             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4318 A final tip of the hat and another tip too!
7/22/93 13:24 21/ Mark Marino <[e-mail]>
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Well, Imagineers,  gotta go for awhile.  I'm losing my net access tommorrow
(I'm starting Monday at a very small multimedia development company).  It
has been really great being a part of this conference.   Take care, everyone.

I have one last tip of the Imagine PC users out there for importing text images:
If you convert the image containing the text to a black background with white
solid letters (using any paint program),  you should be able to import the
TIFF image into Imagine and have it add the faces automagically for you.  In
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the past I'd always used black text on white background, and got that really
annoying bug with the two points added in the upper corners which would really
screw up the add faces algorithm.

Well that's it for now,  hope to see you all again when I get net access for
my new company (Tarragon Interactive).

Ciao,
Mark

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4319 Re: Scene too long to render
7/22/93 15:37 17/ Charles F. Kane <[e-mail]>
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>       My advice is to do the render.  Tour art gallaries with the
> machine rendering the movie, in essence the machine becomes performance
> art.  You'll make millions as the rich and snobby shell out the big
> bucks to see this new form of 'ART'.  You could call it "The Best for
> Last", at the end of the three year tour you show the 12 second clip.
> Such Irony!

> --Pete

I like it!! Of course, for that true "Performance Art" feel, you have to
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blow up the computer as soon as it's done with the rendering. Or perhaps
just BEFORE it finishes, to symbolize the frustrations of the unfulfilled
dreams of the down-trodden, heart-broken artist.
:)


-CFK
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4320 Looking for an object...
7/22/93 16:09 16/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Has anyone seen an object on the net called 'bodygirl'?  Do you know where it
is?  Aminet?  What dir? etc....

A friend of mine said he got it off of peoplelink and that I should check it
out.  And from what he said, you should too.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
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"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4321 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (SPOILER)
7/22/93 18:30 21/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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> > >      - Sound
> Limited, I bet.  If it's more than the ability to trigger an IFF sound from
> their proprietary anim format I'll be astonished.

I heard from impulse many moths back that the sound support would be
time based and not frame based. The stage editor will use a time based
scheme as well.

>
> > >      - Amiga AA chip support
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> Use Firecracker, Use AA buttons?

It should render ham8 as well as have the ability to map ham8. Whatever
happened to JPEG support. Is it in the newsletter?

64k$ question. Will 3.0 open on custom screens?? I kind of doubt
it, but would really like to see an 800X600 detail editor.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
Command:
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4322 Re: imagine 3.0
7/22/93 18:42 31/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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>
> I look at this as a challenge - if they modify the format, I'll reverse-
> engineer it as well.  All they'll do is introduce incompatibility where
> it doesn't have to be.
>
> > What about the textures?  Will essence still function with 3.0?

The texture interface is radically changed. The essence textures for
2.0 will not immediately work, but I think that's steve and glenn's
keyboards you hear working OT. Before reverse engineering (although
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the challenge may be what started you out on the very excellent
ISL) a friendly call to mike H. might be worth your time. Things
have changed. cold war has passed. Mike told me 3rd party developers
are welcomed to call impulse to receive support info. I know it wasn't
always like that but...

> >
> I could picture Mike H. changing stuff around just so that third-party
> products don't work any more.  I hope he isn't that petty!  I don't make
> a dime off of ISL, and Essence is the best thing that's happened to
Command:
> Imagine since Imagine was born.

No, stuff has changed but I doubt it was to screw the 3rd party folks.
Impuls has precious little time on their hands as it is. The texture interface
has been greatly improved (versatility, options, etc...) and backwards
compatability had to be cut. I'm sure more folks would bitch if all the 2.0
stuff worked but we were left with a smaller feature list.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
Command:
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4323 Lense Flare in Imagine 3.0?
7/22/93 20:05 4/ [e-mail]
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Has anyone heard or seen in the newsletter if Lense Flare is a feature of
Imagine 3.0?  How about macro capability through Arexx?

Chris
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4324 Re: BodyGirl
7/22/93 22:31 23/ [e-mail]
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>
>Has anyone seen an object on the net called 'bodygirl'?  Do you know where it
>is?  Aminet?  What dir? etc....
>
>A friend of mine said he got it off of peoplelink and that I should check it
>out.  And from what he said, you should too.

I got BodyGirl off of Portal's AmigaZone (which used to be on PeopleLink
several years ago, but I don't think BodyGirl is that old so you friend
is slightly confused)
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Sorry I don't have a public address for BodyGirl (Portal's a pay system)
but I will second your friend's recommendation! It's an incredible object,
looks like someone digitized a barbie doll in 6 walking key-frame positions
with a very expensive 3-D digitizer... The object is of a very sexy, busty
red-head walking and all my male render buddies can say when they see it is,
"check out the knees!! look at how realistically they bend when she walks!"

Continue your quest! And when you find it, get the German doc file translated,
I'm dying to know how she was made!
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Don DeCosta
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4325 Re: Looking for an object...
7/23/93 00:11 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 22 Jul 1993, Thomas Setzer wrote:

>
> Has anyone seen an object on the net called 'bodygirl'?  Do you know where it
> is?  Aminet?  What dir? etc....
>
> A friend of mine said he got it off of peoplelink and that I should check it
> out.  And from what he said, you should too.
>
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>
It has been found that this object is commercial and not PD and has been
removed from most of the sites.
It has been produced by a German company CAS.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4326 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (GIMME)
7/23/93 00:33 14/ [e-mail]
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Mark Prenter writes:
> For those of you who can't
> wait to hear about features and without spoiling the whole newsletter, I'll
> list a some of the main features mentioned in the newsletter.

"Spoil" a newsletter??  How shallow do you think our lives are? :)
Anyway, since I've only ever gotten one of the newsletters, and I
don't feel like making multiple calls to Impulse so that they can tell
me, "We sent you one already...in fact, we sent you _ten_ of them,
they must've dematerialized or something", it would be nice if some
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kind, fast-typing soul could list _all_ the features.

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4327 Imagine 3.0 (Using Retina display card and Imagine)
7/23/93 03:35 10/ [e-mail] (Heberle H.)
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Hi Kent,
I own a Retina display card and installed it two weeks ago. What I will
say is, that it works fine with Imagine. It it possible to define
different screen resolutions for different programs. I use a screen
resolution of 1024 x 768 in PAL. All the editors (Detail, Forms, Cycle,
Stage) works in this resolution. The Project and Action editors don't.
But this is not neccessary. In the editors you can see every detail of
your object. The screen refreshing time is much faster than befor (I
think more than 10 times). If you want more info email me.
Horst
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4328 Re:  Imagine 3.0 (Using Retina display card and Imagine)
7/23/93 04:16 6/ [e-mail] (Suraj Gulrajanai)
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I was interested to find out you were able to use Retina with Imagine.. Is
it the newer version?  I only have v2.0... I suppose I need to upgrade in
order to use these new graphics board support (??)  My copy only supports
DCTV and FireCracker boards.. :(

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4329 Re: Scene too long to render
7/23/93 07:06 22/ [e-mail] (Scot Schneebeli)
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> I tried to render an image in 724x566. It takes 70 hours ! It means that with 3
> days per image, then 100 images per year : total 3 years.

I'm not quite sure how easy it would be in the scene that your are rendering,
but you can try to replace the procedural textures with pixmaps. It does take
a little experimentation, but you can get serious speed increases. Render your
texture(s) on a plane. Save as a 24 bitplane file, and map to your object.
I've found that it can take a bit of work to get the objects, which are oblique
to the viewer, to look right, but so far I've managed.
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> I've just installed GigaMem, to not be so low with the memory. I'm waiting for

I don't think this is likely to speed things up. Your new virtual memory will
wind up slowing you down if the program is accessing sections of memory in
such a way as to cause a lot of swapping to occur (i.e. read low mem then
high mem then middle mem -- repeat). I/O is always a bottleneck. Virtual Mem
is great but can't touch real ram.

--
Command:
Scot Schneebeli                       <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4330 Hello Nir Hermoni!
7/23/93 17:16 12/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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Nir Hermoni could you please EMail me.

I've tried several times to EMail you direct but with no success.

Everyone else please disregard this message.  Sorry to take up bandwidth.  :-)

--
   ____ John    ____       Australian Developer   FAX   [phone]
  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
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//__//rafix  //__ffects   EMAIL [e-mail]
         OR EMAIL rowe.adsp.sub.org![e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4331 impulse/3.0
7/23/93 09:52 10/ [e-mail]
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i called impulse to get info/order3.0
after i was transfered i asked the guy if essence was compatible w/3.0
he said no!  ...   i said  "NO!?#@"  "it's not compatible with the essence
textures?" he said "well yes, it should be, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IT SHOULD
WORK."    (i didn't upgrade at that time)  now i hear here that
it is not but that it will be trivial to fix since impulse will
supply to developers (APEX) the required info.
by the way, after the impulse guy said yes after he said no i asked him
"why did you just say no?" he said "i don't know what i was saying"
and it after all is not compatible.    jason
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4332 re: impulse/3.0
7/23/93 12:41 11/ [e-mail]
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if impulse is adding a new texture format, why would it make the old
textures break?  they should support both the original texture format
as well as whatever new format they use. this will make compatability
of the old objects with the new imagine, but we'd also be able to
use whatever new features or formats as well.

if impulse doesn't support its old object, staging, and texture
formats, they are silly. adding a new format is fine, but only if the
old files can ALSO be used. i will not upgrade if it means i have to throw
out my whole library of objects and scene files.
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jeff
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4333 Re: Making arches
7/22/93 17:18 14/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi t9014135 (t9014135), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 21 you wrote:

: to no avail.  Once I'd got the path to bend I would then extrude the
: shape alond the path and hence get a arch :). Obvioulsy I am doing something wrong.
:
: Can anyone tell me how to make a perfect arc/arch.

Well personally I would not use that approach there is a much simpler way
to make an arch! Just create a TORUS from the ADD Primitives. After it is
creted just slice it up any way you want! After you achieved the ARC you
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wanted (the angle) you can scale it using only one of the axis for the
exact effect you are looking for! At least this is the way I would achieve
it.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4334 Brushmap fun question
7/23/93 15:41 31/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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Fellow Imaginauts,

I've been experimenting with a way to make window ports for a spaceship object
without having to model each one and thus adding more polygons. You know,
basically round "lights" with the  bright attribute on. What I am doing is to
create say the front panel to the ship and turn on the "bright" atttribute.
Onto that I would apply a brushmap of the panel colored correctly, but with
the windows "punched out" by painting them with color 0 and using the genlock
button for the brushmap. Theoretically, the "brightness" should show through
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the color 0 windows, and the rest should be colored correctly.

Well, suffice to say, things aren't happening the way I want. Using just a color
map, the color map is also "bright", meaning, if there are no lights in the
scene, the whole object glows, brushmap and all! Not what I want. It spoils
any shading. I tried a filter map with varying degrees of transparency and
that didn't work too well. The lights would be brighter than the surrounding
brushmap, but it would still be muddied by the transparency.

Basically I'm running out of things to try and I would hate to abandon this
Command:
approach since it would help for making say a Stardestroyer model look real
nice. Does anybody else have any suggestions? Exactly how are brushmaps applied?
Is it indeed possible to make such a brush "mask" where the ONLY part of the
object behind it that shows through is the color 0 parts? Is there some magic
combination of brushmaps to allow this? I would love to be able to just paint
my bright windows on my object.

Thanks,

Byrt Martinez
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4335 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (GIMME)
7/23/93 16:27 27/ [e-mail]
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Well, _I_ got the Impulse newsletter today <falls off chair>.

I type very quickly, and I'm willing to type in large chunks of the
Imagine 3.0 details verbatim so people can puzzle over what Impulse
might mean.  If any of you non-newsletter-getters want this info, let
me know now and I'll either forward a textfile or post to the list
directly (if I happen to get more than a couple of requests).  This
info is presumably on c.s.a.graphics by now, too; I haven't read it
lately.

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Favourite newsletter quotes:

1. "Imagine...Consider if you will for just a moment the task of
building a bridge.  A bridge to a place that may not even exist.
Nevertheless a place where people want to visit, a place that everyone
talks about but no one is sure just where it is...If this bit of prose
makes sense to you then you have a better understanding of just what
we here at Impulse are trying to do with Imagine."

2.  Comparing all new competitors' products to "two pounds of rubbish in
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a one pound bag".

3.   "Imagine [PC] does not need any memory manager to run properly."
(Shouldn't that sentence be the other way around?)

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4336 Re: Brushmap fun question
7/23/93 16:30 13/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Try two simple plane objects, one a 'bright' object at the back, the other
the panel with the brushmap and color 0 windows, placed a tiny increment
in front of the 'bright' object.  The bright object should show through
the color 0 areas of the foreground object, while the foreground object
should still be affected by shadows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4337 Re: Imagine 3.0 (Using Retina display card and Imagine)
7/23/93 20:41 26/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 23 Jul 1993, Suraj Gulrajanai wrote:

>
> I was interested to find out you were able to use Retina with Imagine.. Is
> it the newer version?  I only have v2.0... I suppose I need to upgrade in
> order to use these new graphics board support (??)  My copy only supports
> DCTV and FireCracker boards.. :(
>
You cannot render directly to Retina (no big deal) but you can model
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directly via Retina on screens of any size. This is really not a problem
if you know how to do it...

(This is with Imagine 2)

In the Retina EMU - after running and closing Imagine, chose Imagine,
then , click default screen size off and enter a new screen size and save
this. Do not re-activate defaults.

Imagine will now open in the new screen size.
Command:
If defaults are on Imagine will open on its normal screen size.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4338 re: impulse/3.0
7/23/93 20:52 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 23 Jul 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

> if impulse is adding a new texture format, why would it make the old
> textures break?  they should support both the original texture format
> as well as whatever new format they use. this will make compatability
> of the old objects with the new imagine, but we'd also be able to
> use whatever new features or formats as well.
>
> if impulse doesn't support its old object, staging, and texture
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> formats, they are silly. adding a new format is fine, but only if the
> old files can ALSO be used. i will not upgrade if it means i have to throw
> out my whole library of objects and scene files.
> jeff

I don't think that the object format will change so far we know only that
Cycle objects and textures are not likely to work, but everything else will.
BTW, if you ried to use Imagine 1.1 textures in v 2.0 - they do not work
either -  Imagine tells you that they are the wrong version. So, if Steve
and Glenn could make Essence work with all the revisions then they should
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be able to make Essence work with the new ones as well. Right Steve, Glenn ?

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4339 Panorama
7/23/93 21:31 21/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Has anyone heard of a new scenery program Panorama? I've heard a little
bit about it and it seems that it really kicks VP 3 and SA 4 butt!

Apparentely according to a friend of mine who's seen it the image quality
is great and things like water and clouds are very realistic as are the
trees and the number of options is amazing.
Apparentely, the water reflects the sky, and the rivers if they flow down
the mountains will have rapids down the bottom!

If this is true I want it!
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So, can anyone tell me the company producing this package and how much it
is. Also, has anyone used it yet? My friend only saw it for a short time
at another guy's palce and since he isn't really into it didn't bother to
find out about all these things.

Nik.
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4340 3.0
7/23/93 22:10 11/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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> I won't be upgrading if it means throwing away my old textures and objects

Amen.  It is almost like investing huge amounts of time and money in
something that then becomes worthless.  And then, to add insult to injury,
it seems as if impulse expects people to switch to something different
without a complaint.  Sorry for wasting bandwidth on this whiny little post, bu
t I've held my tongue for so long. If those on the list who are also adept at L
ightwave and/or Real 3D private e-mail about the benefits/drawbacks of each. Be
 as verbose as possible.

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                                                   Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4341 Re: imagine 3.0 newsletter mailed
7/23/93 15:32 22/ [e-mail] (Michael Linton)
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"Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]> writes:

> I too echo the concern over whether any pre-made dydle objects will be obsole
> . As these have easily taken up the most time to build for me. On the other h
> d, perhaps older cycle objects can simply be converted to the new format. (ye
>  right)
>                                                         Rob

Yeah, got my newsletter the other day... not only is the Cylce editor
revamped, but the Forms editor as well.  They better be compatible with
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the old Cycle and Forms editors, 'cause I've got many anims on the go
with forms objects, and cycle objects.  I DON'T want to re-do them, as I
did from 1.1 to 2.0.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark
recesses of my mind...  Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as
my light source) to find all that buried info again..."

Command:
                      -- Barb Hall on learning Imagine

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4342 RE: Lense Flare in Imagine 3.0?
7/23/93 23:46 18/ [e-mail] (Mark Prenter)
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> [e-mail] writes:
>
> To: [e-mail]
>
> Has anyone heard or seen in the newsletter if Lense Flare is a feature of
> Imagine 3.0?  How about macro capability through Arexx?
>
> Chris

The newsletter doesn't mention anything about Lense Flare.  But it does
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mention there will be improved macro capibility.

                                                                Mark

--
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4343 RE: Lense Flare in Imagine 3.0?
7/24/93 10:58 10/ "Cyrus J Kalbrener-1" <[e-mail]>
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        I've talked to the guys at Impulse and they said that they are not
too keen on implementing lense flare.  I do think that they might have
included a simple flare that radiates evenly around a light source,
however, similar to what our own eyes see when we look at a bright light.


        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4344 Imagine 3.0 fulltext (LONG)
7/24/93 13:22 233/ [e-mail]
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OK, I've had five requests so far, so I'm posting this directly to the
list.

From the "Impulse Graphics World" newsletter, Summer 1993, pages 3-5,
spelling and grammar unchanged:

NEW FEATURES OF IMAGINE 3.0

BONES:  This amazing function will allow you to build a skeleton that
you will associate to the object that you want to manipulate in a
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smooth method, unlike the process that is now used in the cycle
editor.

BRUSH TACKING:  Presently when you wrap a brush to any object you can
not morph that object and retain the position of the brush on that
object.  The brush stays at the same position in the real world while
the object moves.  Very confusing and not real handy.  Now with Brush
Tacking, brushes or pictures will be mapped directly to each face of
the object, so that when that face moves, the part of the brush that
was tacked to the face will move with the face.  Doing things like
Command:
snake skin and then animating the snake with the Bones function will
make the snake look real.  No more sliding textures.

KINEMATIC MOVEMENTS:  There are several high end software products
that have this feature.  Now Imagine 3.0 has the feature as well.
Kinematics in its truest form is the study of motion, and how things
move.  Within the cycle editor we have had a form of Kinematics
without the more intelligent association of the hierachical relation
of the objects that are in the cycle group.  Now with the new
Kinematic information you can contstrain movements so that when you
Command:
move some portion of the group the other objects will be less or more
effected by one single movement.  Making more realistic cycles will
now be possible.

FONT AND IMAGE EDITOR:  Over the years it has become apparent that
many of you make your living creating what we have all come to know as
flying logos.  The only real problem with this has been that the
conversion of images to objects has lacked the kind detail needed to
make the fonts and incoming images as crisp as they need to be for
professional use.  Hence we have added an entire new editor.  The Font
Command:
and Image editor will allow you to read Postscript fonts as well as
one bit plane images.  The difference is the fact that these objects
will use splines to create the borders of the objects that you create.
This gives you much more detail and control over the object.  Once you
have the object the way that you want it, you simply save it and load
it into the Detail editor to add its final touches, such as color and
texture.

MOTION GRAPHICS:  It has been near impossible to create animation
where action occur at different rates.  In the Action editor you could
Command:
assign a starting and ending speed to objects that travel along a
path.  But you could apply only one set of numbers.  Now with Motion
Graphics you can deal with each segment of the path as a different
motion speed.  Not only can you apply more information to the path,
you can also see what your doing by way of a graphic motion sine wave
display.  No more tricky math calculations to consider, just call up
the actor and plot your graphs with the mouse.

HIERACHY CONTROL AND POP UP ACTION BARS IN THE STAGE:  To say the
least going from one editor to the next can be a real pain.  Now from
Command:
the Stage you can move any object no matter if it is part of a group
or individual and stand alone.  Also from the Stage you can call up
the Action bar directly so that you don't have to go to the Action
editor to make any changes.  This gives you total control over object
movement.  If you don't like the way an object is moving, you don't
have to go back to the Cycle editor to make these changes, do it right
in the Stage.

SOUND:  Not just sound added to digital animations, but the ability to
load your sound track of music or voice right into the Action Editor.
Command:
Instead of making a guess at when things happen and trying blindly to
time your animation to a preset sound, now you can actually see when
its happening and make the changes in movement that correlated
directly to the sound.  The incoming digital sound must be in certain
formats, once in that format they are loaded into the Action header
bar for your viewing.  You cannot edit here the sound is for reference
only.

AMIGA AA CHIP SET SUPPORT:  For those of you with the new Amiga
computers, Imagine will now render in those formats that extend your
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computers visual power.

IMPROVED ANTI-ALIASING:  Jaggies just aren't any fun, and they don't
look good either.  One of the most suggested improvements for Imagine
has been to make the anti-aliasing better.  There is not much to say
when it comes to the improvements we have made here, its another one
of those "You must see it to believe it" new features.  Surffice it to
say that you will appreciate this improvement.

REAL TIME GRAPHICS:  Other software vendors have offered a form of
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real time or symbolic real time movement of objects or real time
movement of the camera.  We have implemented these features into
Imagine 3.0.  In the perspective window you can choose your movements
based upon several viewing options.  You can then move things around
in real time and see the results more immediately.  Caution.  Real
time is always misleading.  In order to do this real time the objects
are given a more symbolic representation like bounding boxes.  This
feature used in the Stage can create paths in real time, which can
then be followed by other objects as well as lights and the camera.
Also this new feature allows you to create your Key Cells on a much
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quicker basis with a single key stroke.

DEFORMATIONS:  It has always been fairly easy to deform objects, but
to do them in a perfect manner has eluded many users.  Now with the
new deformation tools you will be able to.  Twist, Taper, Bend, Shear
and Pinch objects to create even more unique and interesting objects
as well as use them in some very amazing animation effects.  These
deformations combined with Brush Tacking will make animations that
will move you to the next level of reality.

Command:
MATERIALS:  We have long thought that there were two sets of
properties which aside from the shape of the object should be applied
by you the user.  Color, specularity, reflectivity, refraction are all
attributes, where as brush, and textures and shaders are all
properties that could better be called Materials.  Now instead of just
a massive attribute editor we have broke it down and enhanced the two
separate editors.  Materials stands alone so that you can gain even
finer control over your brushed brass pots and pans or polished
chessmen.  [Sounds like trouble for Essence? --EK]

Command:
FORMS EDITOR ENHANCED:  Now in the Forms editor you will be able to
manipulate the slices of the object with the new magnetism system.
Each point on the slice is a control point which you can move to
create objects that have just the right look and feel.

FIELD RENDERING:  Digital animations are generally done by showing a
frame at a time or recording those frames directly to a single frame
VCR.  In most cases these animations, depending on the amount of
frames and the distance of movement of the objects, can look very
smooth.  The truth is that due to the fact that the human eye and
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brain function under a process called Persistence of Vision, it fools
you into seeing motion.  This process however is discrete enough to
see a jerking or quickness to movement.  With Field rendering, your
animations can be almost perfect completing the illusion of motion.
When you see field rendering you may never use frame animations again.

CAMERA AND LIGHT MARKERS:  This feature makes it easier to visualize
the effect lights will have on your scene as well as what the camera
is looking at and just how much of the scene the camera is seeing.
This feature is accomplished by extending markers from the center of a
Command:
light as well as the camera.  These markers form a triangle that shows
the area of effect.  Now as you move lights and the camera you will
have a very definite idea of what you are lighting and what you are
looking at.

APPLY:  We took this feature out of Imagine when it had existed in
Silver.  This command causes the information about the first object
you pick in a multi pick selection, to pass the attributes and
materials of that object to the other objects that have been picked.
So now if you want to make all of the objects in a scene have the same
Command:
properties and attributes of one object you simply use the Apply
command.

MACROS:  With Imagine 3.0 you can take even more control of the
software.  Many of you have said that you find yourself performing
many redundant tasks that lend themselves to the concept of Macro
recording and playback.  So if you find yourself doing the same thing
over and over again, simply make it a macro and just push a button to
make those redundant tasks happen like magic.

Command:
PARTICLES:  Among the newest features found in 3D software is the
particle system.  Like most new features everyone has a different
opinion of what a particle system is.  Simply put, Imagine particles
are varied and are simple to use, they can be morphed, brushed,
textured, and animated.  Even more to the point they are very simple
to use and don't slow the rendering process down at all.

ALPHA CHANNEL SUPPORT:  For video users and makers of great video
fare, you have asked for Alpha Channel Support so your life would be
easier and less complicated.  To wit we have added for your using
Command:
pleasure Alpha support.  Even if you don't make videos for a living
you may find this new feature very handy.

DEPTH OF FIELD:  If you own a camera you already know what this new
feature is going to do for you.  If you don't own a camera you may
still know.  If you don't know, well here is a shot at an explanation.
When you open the apeture of a camera you increase the light that can
hit the film plane, but you do so at the expense of the lens to focus
much beyond the object that you are focused on.  This can be a great
thing for making that object stand out from its environment.  When you
Command:
close the lens down you increase the focus of the camera from point of
focus to infinity.  This means that the entire scene is in focus.  To
date Imagine has had an infinite focused lens due entirely to its
digital nature.  Now with Depth of Field you will be able to make your
images even more realistic.

LIGHT SOURCE CONTROLS:  More creative control for you must also
include more dramatic control over lighting.  In this area there are
numerous new features.  Many of you have asked for a way to control
not only the color of the light but also its power.  Now you can
Command:
control how much of an area a particular light has control over.  The
process is simple to use and the effects make an even better
photo-realistic image than previously possible.  Other new lighting
features include:  Light sources that have shape or dimension to them
like Light flowing through a venetian blind.  Sure you can do these
things now but you have to go to all the trouble of setting up the
blinds and placing the light, just so.  No more, now you can just
click and render.  Of course we have also implemented the ever popular
Soft edge light source and for you real Scanline die hards (faster
rendering of course) we have included shadow mapping.  This feature
Command:
makes it possible to have shadows in Scanline as well as Full Trace.

INFINITY:  Well not really but for all intense and purposes we have
added the ability for you to have as many textures or image maps on
any one object as you want or your computer can handle.  In doing this
we have taken the Brush and Texture options out of the Attributes
requester and have given these options their very own requester.

Imagine 3.0 has over 200 new features, a factoid for those of you
keeping track of that sort of thing.  With all this quantity of new
Command:
features we have not cut any corners, making sure that Imagine meets
and exceeds your needs now and into the future.

Well here is the deal, if these new features have wetted your appetite
and you want to make sure that your order is placed for the 3.0
upgrade, well then go for it.  If on the other hand you want to sit
back and wait to see what other new features there are, OK so do that
as well.  There will be another newsletter at the time of release that
will give you a final description of the features of Imagine 3.0.
Imagine 3.0 is more than even this newsletter can begin to expose you
Command:
to in a few pages.  If you have any questions of course you can call
and we will be glad to answer all your queries.

---(endquote)---------------------------------

Upgrade from 2.0: $100.00
MSRP: $649.00
Release:  "...if all goes well Imagine 3.0 will be shipping sometime
in the month of August (probably the latter part of August)."
Order#: 1-800-328-0184 (USA only)
Command:

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4345 imagine 3.0 / cycle /bones
7/24/93 15:48 37/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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Thanks to Evan for posting the full newsletter text. Well - it looks as though
my cycke objects may not be completely unuseable. Recenetly I posted a descript
ion of my own uses for the cycle editor. No one has replied that they use it in
 a similar way. (I'm not trying to be a know-it all here, I'm just really wonde
ring if the cycle editor was used as much as it could have been). However, the
new replacement as described by impulse seems to do the same thing : make repet
itive movements intrinsic to the object rather than burdening the user by
making him/her enter them into the stage for every different anim. (or still fo
r that matter: say you want to capture a spaceship in mid take off with gear ha
lf retracted).
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Anyway, I'm really curious about both the different aspects of movement-capable
 objects - both on a software and programming level. I don't want to bore anyon
e on this list if their not interested, nor offend them, (as certain other s ha
ve done in the past), so could someone (Mark? Steve? Dave?) e-mail me privately
 and tell me where I could find out more about this stuff. It seems to me that
one possible future for computer graphics is a sort of object-oriented object (
actually, in imagines case , object-oriented group) which has several preset wa
ys in which its constituate objects can move in relation to each other. Useful
applications for this would be things like insects, spaceships with gear (sorry
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 to bang everybody on the head with this - Ive been working on it for far too l
ong I think), a walking person. Such an O.O.Group could them just be put on a s
tage-like editor and stuck on a path and viola. That was the intent of the cycl
e editor (I believe) and I hope that the replacement enhances the capabilities
(I HOPE SO).

I hope that someone answers me on this. The silence so far has been somewhat fr
ustrating as several people (including myself) Nuked Kiernan for talking about
things he didn't neccesarily know about - one person going so far as to tell hi
m to do as students should do and shut up and listen to those who do know and h
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ave worked with these things. Don't get me wrong- I agree  with the above - wha
t is frustrating is that here I am, making an honest attempt to listen to anyon
e about the aspects of 3D of which I (as a student) am scraping the surface of
---- AND NO ONE IS TALKING.


                                                   Rob
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4346 Re: imagine 3.0 / cycle /bones
7/25/93 14:45 42/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Rob,

I sympathize with your frustration about the overwhelming silence.  I
don't know why this is for others, but for myself it's mostly because I
don't consider most of my own work suitable for publication.  Maybe I'm
wrong on this.

You're not the only person experimenting with the potential of the Cycle
editor.  The way you described using it for spacecraft landing gear is a
pretty neat implementation, IMHO.  Personally, I think applications like
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yours are going to prove more useful in the long term than the current
vogue of morphing everything in the known universe into everything else.

I also appreciate the amount of time it takes to make a realistic cycle
object, especially if one intends to model the natural movements of
vertabrates.  I tried referring to the works of Eadward Muybridge on human
and animal locomotion, along with the more detailed time-and-motion
studies done over the last 50 years, and found that it's EXTREMELY
difficult to find usable data on absolute joint positions.  I also made
the mistake of trying to model a domestic cat as a first project.  Did you
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know cats have only vestigial collarbones, and their shoulder joint
essentially 'floats' in muscle? There is NO fixed axis for a cat's shoulder!
I finally decided to stick with machines and exoskeletal critters
(insects, crustaceans, etc.) until I developed more expertise. I found
several good books on comparative animal locomotion and entomology that
give useful data on everything from millipedes to beetles.  Now if I could
just snag a deal for a RAID commercial...

If anyone is interested, I'm a research librarian by training, and would
be glad to help IML readers find sources like the Muybridge books.  Would
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anyone out there be interested in a bibliography on these or related
subjects?  Does anyone have any other sources of information to suggest?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4347 Re: imagine 3.0 / cycle /bones
7/26/93 01:07 38/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>If anyone is interested, I'm a research librarian by training, and would
>be glad to help IML readers find sources like the Muybridge books.  Would
>anyone out there be interested in a bibliography on these or related
>subjects?  Does anyone have any other sources of information to suggest?

     The latest Desktop Video Whirled (Aug/Sep '93) has a pretty good
article on skeletonal movement as applied to 2D animation. Camels, horses
(of course) and a greyhound are used as examples. I have Muybridge's books
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too and found the article of great interest. Here's some more refrences:

     Analysis of Vertebrate Structure, Hildebrand, M., John Wiley & Sons.

     Animal Anatomy for Artists, Ellenberger, W., et al, Dover Publications.

     An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists, Schider, F., Dover Publications.

     How Mammals Run, Gambaryan, P. P., John Wiley & Sons.

Command:
     Speed in Animals, Howell, A. Brazier, Hafner Publishers.

     And, of course, Muybridge's varied books.

     (All these taken from the "Animator's Resources" section of the
      aforementioned article).



     You're right about re-creating natural movement being tough. I've
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never had to tweak a cycle so much to get such dismal results. I just try
to make my humanoids and animals look as un-natural as possible. Then the
movement fits fine ;-).


--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4348 Re: Animation Bibliography
7/26/93 09:05 24/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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There's been enough interest expressed that I will be making a personal
project of compiling a bibliography for Imagine users.  Thanks to those
who have already responded with suggestions; keep 'em coming!

Any and all sources that you or anyone else have found useful, for
lighting, motion studies, traditional animation, rendering techniques,
etc., will be extremely welcome.

Full bibliographic citations are wonderful, but I can generally dig up the
rest of the info if you can give me title or author and an approximate
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publication date.

If this bibliography adds up to something, maybe we could append it to the
FAQ.  Any comments or other suggestions?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4349 Re: 3.0 and Caligari
7/26/93 08:17 28/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Please note- This is a forwarded message:

From [e-mail] Sat Jul 24 12:10:02 1993
From: Naked Man <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 3.0 and Caligari
To: [e-mail] (Robert A. Gougher)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 13:07:26 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]> from "Robert A. Gougher" at Jul 24, 93 01:10:00 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
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Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 862

  Howdy, Rob.
  I'm glad you did voice your opinion, I agree.  I'm sending you word from
  a life-long fan of Imagine who has recently been won over by Caligari so
  much that Imagine has remained on the shelf for a couple of months now.
  I won't abandon it completely because it will do some calculated sorts of
  things that the professional (that is, fast...) packages can't do.  I'd
  rave about caligari, but I'll reserve that unless you have any interest
Command:
  in hearing it.  I can begin, though, by saying that Octree has in recent
  years been pricing their package to be competitive with AMIGA renderers.
  In other words, us ordinary mortals can afford it.  Caligari Broadcast
  once sold for 3500 bucks.  (Yikes, but a bargain considering the price of
  other PC renderers costing TWICE as much, like TOPAS ($6000) ).
  Must dash, cheery-o!
  wes
  ~
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4350 Re: Brushmap fun question
7/26/93 08:29 21/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> I've been experimenting with a way to make window ports for a spaceship
> without having to model each one and thus adding more polygons.

An old trick that I have used with LW that I think will work with Imagine
is to use reflection mapping. Create an image that has your window placement
on it (white for windows, black everywhere else) and use that to modulate
your surface reflectivity. Then create a global reflection map (the image
that will actually be reflected) that is nothing more than a small solid brush
of the color you want your lighted windows to be. Now, no matter what the
lighting conditions are or angle the ship is turned, the mapped windows will
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glow the color of your brushmap. I am assuming here that Imagine can do
reflection mapping (ie. modulate reflectivity based on an image). The new
LW now has luminosity mapping which eliminates the need for this trick.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4351 Re: Imagine 3.0 fulltext (LONG)
7/26/93 09:52 5/ [e-mail]
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Evan-
     Thanks very much for the fulltext post.  Did you or anyone else
     read anything about Arexx support in 3.0?

Ed
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4352 Re: Animation Bibliography
7/26/93 09:49 20/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
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>
>If this bibliography adds up to something, maybe we could append it to the
>FAQ.  Any comments or other suggestions?
>

        Sure!  Good idea.  Just compile it and send me the finished
list.  I will send some of my stuff once i get home to look the books i
have.
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        It will be interesting to see what we come up with.



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4353 Re: Brushmap fun question
7/26/93 09:56 23/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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> Try two simple plane objects, one a 'bright' object at the back, the other
> the panel with the brushmap and color 0 windows, placed a tiny increment
> in front of the 'bright' object.  The bright object should show through
> the color 0 areas of the foreground object, while the foreground object
> should still be affected by shadows.

Well, I did try that also, but the problem was the front object brush would only
show through the color of the front object. In other words, the front object
itself is not transparent, so all you will see is through color 0 is the object's
color, default being white.
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I've also tried playing with the filter attributes of the object itself to make
it transparent, but unfortunately, the brushmap also becomes transparent!
Varying degrees of transparency also gets applied to the brush, which is not
what I want.

I'm looking more for the ability to place an opaque decal onto a window. It
seems the way the attributes are appplied does not allow this.

Well, I'll still keep trying! Thanks.
Command:

Byrt Martinez

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4354 Weird Beard problems!
7/26/93 15:15 20/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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Hi Ya fellow Imagineers!

I'm doing an animation that features Noah (you know the dude with the Ark).

I'm using Tim Wilson's Humanoid object (Fantastic IMHO) and having some
difficulty creating a realistic long flowing beard for him.

I've tried a number of Essence Textures (not Essence II yet, only just got it)
and also image maps.  Can't quite get the desired effect yet.

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Has anyone had any success with hair or got any ideas.

Thanks in advance.

--
   ____ John    ____       Australian Developer   FAX   [phone]
  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
//__//rafix  //__ffects   EMAIL [e-mail]
         OR EMAIL rowe.adsp.sub.org![e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4355 Re: Humanoid objects
7/26/93 17:33 41/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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On Jul 16, P.J. Foley wrote:

>Has anyone tried the new Humanoid objects?  I believe it is
>made by The Anti-Gravity Workshop or someone.  Is it worth
>the price?  Are they _really_ detailed (eyes, mouth, ears...)?
>Do they morph well?  Could they out lawn mow the Lawnmower Man?

Humanoid is a product of Tim Wilson's Crestline Software Publishing.

When I was in the U.S. almost 2 months ago, Tim was kind enough to let me have
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a pre-release version.  The final Humanoid package contains figures of a
muscular man, a standard man, a woman and a child - all in both high density
and low density format (meaning more points and less points).  The pre-release
I have contains the high-densities of the muscular man and the woman, the
poses for the muscular man's walk cycle, some morph targets for his head (base,
anger, surprise, fear, smile), and sample attribute settings and reflection
maps as well as a good manual.  I believe the final release, in addition to
containing these objects for all the figures, will also contain morph targets
for the hands and run cycles.

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I previously owned Cycleman and used him in my animation "Encounter".  I found
him excellent.  Humanoid is a degree of sophistication far beyond Cycleman.
I've been using him to create a representation of Noah and the level of facial
detail is amazing.  Yes, he has ears (fairly flat to his head as I remember),
well sculpted mouth, nose, eyes and eyebrows (that are designated parts of the
head rather than separate objects).  The expressions I have do morph well -
all the appropriate parts of the face move as you would expect.

The high density objects are large and the manual recommends 6 MB RAM to get
the best out of them.  If you want to model people, I thoroughly recommend
Command:
this package.

I am in no way connected with Tim Wilson or Crestline, just a satisfied
renderer/animator/Imagineer!  :-)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4356 Re: Imagine 3.0 News (GIMME)
7/25/93 09:53 12/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi kirchh (kirchh), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 23 you wrote:

: 1. "Imagine...Consider if you will for just a moment the task of
: building a bridge.  A bridge to a place that may not even exist.
: Nevertheless a place where people want to visit, a place that everyone
: talks about but no one is sure just where it is...If this bit of prose
: makes sense to you then you have a better understanding of just what
: we here at Impulse are trying to do with Imagine."

        Sounds like someone has seriously been using illegal substances
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for quite some time, and it had derranged effects !!!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4357 Re: imagine 3.0
7/25/93 09:45 24/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi Steve (Steve J. Lombardi), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 22 you wrote:

: No, stuff has changed but I doubt it was to screw the 3rd party folks.

        Well then you do not know Mike Very well do you??? Let me tell you
a little story! At one time my parnter and I were going to do a tutorial
tapes (around 3 or 4 of them) covering evry aspect of Imagine possible!).
Well after we got all set and the script was ready we decided to contact
Mike and see if he can loan as a Firecracker board for displaying the
graphics. Well when we explained what we are going to do.... his reply was
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oh.. that do not bother we are coming out with the same tapes you talked
about in around 2 to 3 weeks. Well that put a stop to our venture! Since
then my partner was hired by Electronic Arts and that was the end of the
tape story! The thing is.... have you seen those tapes???? Just to show a
time reference that was 2 years ago! So do not tell me about Mike srewing
3rd party!

: Impuls has precious little time on their hands as it is. The texture interface
: has been greatly improved (versatility, options, etc...) and backwards
: compatability had to be cut. I'm sure more folks would bitch if all the 2.0
Command:
: stuff worked but we were left with a smaller feature list.

        Everyone who knows Impulse knew that was going to happen! Why
should he let Steve and the rest earn a little money!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4358 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 20:05 19/ Gary Whiteley - Amiga Shopper <[e-mail]>
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This has been driving me nuts, so if anyone knows a simple answer to
my problem I'll be glad to hear it. I've tried all I can think of and
now I'm stuck. Maybe I'm just being thick - I really hope so!

I'm trying to place a brushmap onto a plane but so that only the
brushmap itself is visible - rather like writing onto glass, where
you don't get to see the glass, just the writing. I've tried as
many variations as I can think of (genlock, filter, different background
colours for the brush etc etc) but I just can't seem to get any joy.
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Neither Steve's book nor the Imagine manual itself give any indications
of how to do this (as far as I can see) so is it really possible?

Thanks in advance for any wizard who can put me straight,

Gary Whiteley


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4359 brushmap fun question
7/26/93 12:07 13/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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hi byrt,
I've also tried playing with the filter attributes of the object itself to make
it transparent, but unfortunately, the brushmap also becomes transparent!
Varying degrees of transparency also gets applied to the brush, which is not
what I want.

I think what you need is TWO maps, one for transparency, which would be
a simple black and white image, and one color map for the opaque decal.The
transparency map will *cut out* the shape of the decal, and the color map
will align perfectly to the *cut out*, to get the decal effect i think you
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are looking for.

kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4360 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 13:09 9/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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This is exactly my problem with creating lighted windows for spaceships!
Basically, if doing what you want can be done, both of our problems would
be solved. I also have tried many configurations. None to my liking!

If you make the object transparent, the brushmap will be too! If you hear of
any good sugestions, please share them.

Byrt Martinez

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4361 Re: Brushmap fun question
7/26/93 13:27 30/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>
> Well, suffice to say, things aren't happening the way I want. Using just a color
> map, the color map is also "bright", meaning, if there are no lights in the
> scene, the whole object glows, brushmap and all! Not what I want. It spoils
> any shading. I tried a filter map with varying degrees of transparency and
> that didn't work too well. The lights would be brighter than the surrounding
> brushmap, but it would still be muddied by the transparency.
>
I would think this last one would be the way to go.  What do you mean by the
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last sentence? Muddied how? Maybe a combination of suggestions...


> Try two simple plane objects, one a 'bright' object at the back, the other
> the panel with the brushmap and color 0 windows, placed a tiny increment
> in front of the 'bright' object.  The bright object should show through
> the color 0 areas of the foreground object, while the foreground object
> should still be affected by shadows.

Instead use the filter map with this technique.
Command:

I have no idea what I'm talking about...just thought I would let you know.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4362 Re: Weird Beard problems!
7/26/93 13:38 11/ [e-mail] (David Monachello)
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hi,


I've made failrly convincing hair by making a object, in this case hair on the top
of the characters head, and then using the Vertex fractal operator to add irregularity
to it.


later
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dave monachello
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4363 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 13:51 18/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> I'm trying to place a brushmap onto a plane but so that only the
> brushmap itself is visible - rather like writing onto glass, where
> you don't get to see the glass, just the writing. I've tried as
> many variations as I can think of (genlock, filter, different background
> colours for the brush etc etc) but I just can't seem to get any joy.

In Lightwave you would use two brush maps, one for the image and the other
a mask used as a transparency map.  Does imagine support transparency maps?

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4364 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 14:07 25/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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> I'm trying to place a brushmap onto a plane but so that only the
> brushmap itself is visible - rather like writing onto glass, where
> you don't get to see the glass, just the writing. I've tried as
> many variations as I can think of (genlock, filter, different background
> colours for the brush etc etc) but I just can't seem to get any joy.

This also may help the guy who was trying to make good spaceship windows
with decals on them...

You need to make two brushmaps.  First make the one with the writing on
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it, with the proper colors and all.  Next make one the same size, with
black on the part you want to see, and white everywhere else.  You can
probably make this from the first brushmap with judicious use of your
favorite paint program and the fill command.

Once you have your maps, apply them both to your object - first the map with
the stuff you want to see, then the second (transparency) map.  Make the
first brush a "color" map.  When you are done fiddling with it's position
and size, note the values, and set up the second brushmap identically using
"Transform Axes", only make it a "filter" map.
Command:

This should do what you want...

_john

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4365 Re: Brushmap fun question
7/26/93 14:23 40/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>I've been experimenting with a way to make window ports for a spaceship object
>without having to model each one and thus adding more polygons.

I wrote Steve Worley about an idea I had concerning this problem.  I asked if
textures are able to 'see' colors applied by brushmaps.  Here is his reply
(hope you don't mind, Steve):
---------- Begin Include ------------
Brushmaps are applied, then textures.

BUT
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you can do a sneaky trick. Group your object as a child to a null, empty, axis.
Apply textures to this empty axis with "apply to children". These will be
avaluated before the brushmaps on the main object.

(this is also the way you can add more than four textures at once).

Inded, the texture can "see" the applied brushmap color, though it
doesn't know if tht was from a brushmap, the original surface, or a
previous texture.
Command:

-Steve

And Essence Pro will use this trick to add alpha channels, etc, to all current
textures. :-)

---------- End Include ------------

So, Steve could write a texture to, as he said, add alpha channels.  In fact,
you could use a particular color, eg 0,0,0, from a brushmap to modify any
Command:
attribute at that color.  Cool.  That would solve the problem.  It also
opens up some interesting possibilities... Floating letters from a brushmap,
as was just recently asked about....


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4366 Re: Weird Beard problems!
7/26/93 15:45 12/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Have you tried using the Disturbed texture with very small amplitude,
combined with the Wood texture in shades of white and gray and very small
disturbance and ring spacing values (so the 'grain' of the wood is very
regular, putting narrrow, parallel lines of white and gray into the beard)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4367 Transparent stuff
7/26/93 16:38 28/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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Re: all this talk about getting brushmaps on transparent objects:

I don't know what the big deal is - I've never had trouble with doing this.
Assuming I'm reading the problem right, it's trivial - just take your brushmap,
apply it to the object as a filter map, and render.  If your brushmap is in
color you'll have to remember to leave the background black and select
"Inverse Video", or else you'll get walpyjod colors, but otherwise it's a
pretty simple procedure.  Of course, it makes a difference whether the light
is passing through the object or bouncing off it - you have to have some
light falling on the front of the object.  I did a couple quick renders
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while typing this message and encountered no problems.

Just remember that the color values in a filter map applied to an object
act just like they do in the filter settings in Attributes - white is
transparent.  So if you got a black background it ain't gonna work...

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

(of course, if y'all are talking about something else, then I'll just shut
my face and go away)
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.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
|Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone].|
>-------------------------------------------------..------------------------<
|"Only the rays of the sun can destroy the rock of|| Buy a Commodore Amiga: |
|Uranus!" "Oh, you just need more fiber..." MST3k ||It's 100% Windows-Free! |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4368 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 18:22 13/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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>>Does imagine support transparency maps?
>
> To the best of my knowledge no. Not like Lightware anyhow. Pity. I've only been
>  able to do funky stuff by adding successive layers to a brushmap in Dpaint. No
> t nearly as modular and much more tiresome.

I must be missing something here, but what's with the so-called Filter
Maps?  They provide as much control over the transparency of an object as a
color map gives control over its color.  No?
        I've used them quite successfully, too.  Wonderful effects.  :)
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 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4369 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 17:05 7/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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>Does imagine support transparency maps?

To the best of my knowledge no. Not like Lightware anyhow. Pity. I've only been
 able to do funky stuff by adding successive layers to a brushmap in Dpaint. No
t nearly as modular and much more tiresome.

                                                           Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4370 sneaky brushmap trick
7/26/93 17:20 11/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I think this is similar to one trick that I have used.  I was working on a
landing deck, and had a brushmap AND a texture to apply.  PROBLEM: for
brushmaps, the y axis must be the cross of the two axes of the map, but the
z axis must be the cross of the 2 texture axes.  So I applied the texure to
a parent axis, pointing the z axis straight up, and then I applied the
brushmap to a child axis, with the origin at the same point as the parent,
and the y axis pointing up.  Just thought this might be handy to some prople
working with this stuff.


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                                                   Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4371 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/27/93 10:22 23/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Problems with this:
> Imagine has a bug which makes it impossible to make something perfectly
> transparent using a brushmap filter. This is probably only noticable if your
> brushmap only covers a portion of your glass. In which case there will be a
> rectangle around your picture that's not-so transparent. So the way around
> that is use 'Convert ILBM' on a plane with your picture outline.  Then do the
> above steps to the new object.

Yuk!  This coupled with Imagine's limitation of allowing only triangulated
polys is going to needlessly increase your polygon count.  Is this a bug
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(transparency map) that is being fixed or addressed in 3.0?

Is 3.0 finally going to get allow n sided polys?

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 He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4372 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/26/93 17:05 7/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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>Does imagine support transparency maps?

To the best of my knowledge no. Not like Lightware anyhow. Pity. I've only been
 able to do funky stuff by adding successive layers to a brushmap in Dpaint. No
t nearly as modular and much more tiresome.

                                                           Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4373 Good time for bug reports ?!?!
7/27/93 13:46 17/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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We all know that Imagine 2.0 has a number of bugs which make graphics
stuff complicated (think of the Slice command).l
Now Impulse comes out with Imagine 3.0 real soon. Wouldn't it be
a good time to speak with them NOW and ask if they could correct
some errors. (Think of an Imagine which slices properly, a dream :-) )
It would make Imagine 3.0 more attractive to many users.

Unfortuantley I live in Germany and calling Impulse from here
would be rather expensive.

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So how about that:

Collect again all of the known bugs and then call Impulse ?

What are your opinions ?
Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4374 See-through Mapping
7/27/93 21:51 20/ [e-mail]
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Gary,

     There's another method that I found out trying to apply a decal to a
soda can. I couldn't use a filter map this time because parts of the actual can
would be transparent. This time, I just used one color image with everything
that I want to be "see-through" colored in black (or the genlock color 0). Then,
I applied this brush-map as a color map with the "use genlock" gadget checked.
Originally, I had trouble using this method with 24-bit images because I
couldn't find a way to make sure all the areas that I wanted to be transparent
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were color 0. Decreasing the image to a 32 color one and using the palette
requester of DPaint 3, I made sure all see through areas were black (0 0 0) in
color 0. When the image is correct, I had the decal on the can, with the parts
of the can showing through the black (color 0) areas of the original image.

The tough part was getting all see-through areas in the image to be completey
(0 0 0) in color 0. Is there any way in ADPro to see which parts of an image
are colored with color 0 (black)?

Ramon Colinayo
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4375 Rerendering Essense II Sample Pic's - AREXX prog 4 captions
7/28/93 19:14 203/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
Lines 1 to 10 of 203 (4%)
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Hi Ho Imagineers!

I just got Essence II!  Isn't it great!  Steve, Glenn & the guys are definately
at the "Apex" of developing for Imagine!  ;-)

I immediately set to rerendering the EssenceAtts.imp pics in HAM8, but of
course the rendered pics don't include any captions telling you which sample
attribute is which!  Bummer!  What to use to put the captions on?

DPaint IV?  Too slow!
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SCALA?  Not on a HAM8 screen you don't!
ADPro?  Type in and centre 200 captions by hand!!?  8-()  ...groan
Automate it with AREXX!  That's the ticket!  Well, I thought I'd post the
prog I wrote in case anyone else was being faced with the same problem.

After the prog, I've included a uuencoded lha file containing the 10 sets
of captions.  Just unarc them & stick them in the same directory the pics are
in after you've rendered them.  The AREXX prog is smart enough to position the
captions correctly no matter what resolution the images are in - at least it's
worked with the couple of resolutions I've tried.
Command:

So just render in 24bit and let ADPro produce as many sets of pics in as many
resolutions as you want.

Just run up your ADPro, set the LowRes/HiRes, the Lace/Non-Lace & the number
of colours you want, pop open a CLI, RX the following script and you're away.

/*
** For users of Essence II
**      ARexx program to add captions to pictures rendered EssenceAtts.imp
Command:
**
**      Author: John Rowe   28 July '93  Version 1.00
** EMail: [e-mail]
*/

OPTIONS RESULTS

ADDRESS "ADPro"

ADPRO_TO_FRONT
Command:

GETFILE "'Select The Highest Pic.xxxx File'"
IF RC ~= 0 THEN EXIT
PIC_HIGH = ADPRO_RESULT

IN_PATH = left(PIC_HIGH,length(PIC_HIGH)-8)

GETFILE "'Select The Lowest Pic.xxxx File'" IN_PATH "Pic.0001"
IF RC ~= 0 THEN EXIT
PIC_LOW = ADPRO_RESULT
Command:

GETDIR "'Output Path?'"
IF RC ~= 0 THEN EXIT
OUT_PATH = ADPRO_RESULT

IN_PATH = STRIP(IN_PATH)
OUT_PATH = STRIP(OUT_PATH)
IF RIGHT(IN_PATH  , 1) ~= ":" & RIGHT(IN_PATH  , 1) ~= "/" THEN IN_PATH  = IN_PATH  || "/"
IF RIGHT(OUT_PATH , 1) ~= ":" & RIGHT(OUT_PATH , 1) ~= "/" THEN OUT_PATH = OUT_PATH || "/"

Command:
OKString =           "Input Path:" || NL || IN_PATH || NL
OKString = OKString || "Output Path:" || NL || OUT_PATH || NL
OKString = OKString || "Frames:" right(PIC_LOW,4) " - " right(PIC_HIGH,4) || NL
OKString = OKString || "Is This Correct? (OK == YES)"
OKAY2 OKString
IF RC = 0 THEN EXIT

/* Put your preferences for file loading and saving types here */
LFORMAT "UNIVERSAL"
SFORMAT "IFF"
Command:

CURR_PIC = 0+right(PIC_LOW,4)
DO WHILE CURR_PIC <= 0+right(PIC_HIGH,4)
        LoadFileName = IN_PATH || "Pic." || right("000" || CURR_PIC,4)
        SAY
        SAY "Loading " || LoadFileName
        LOAD LoadFileName
        IF RC ~= 0 THEN DO
                ADPRO_TO_FRONT
                OKAY1 "Could Not Load " LoadFileName
Command:
                EXIT
        END

        TxtFileName = IN_PATH || "Pic." || right("000" || CURR_PIC,4) || ".txt"
        SAY "Loading Text File " || TxtFileName
        IF ~OPEN('infile',TxtFileName,'Read') THEN DO
                OKAY1 "Could Not Open " TxtFileName
                EXIT
        END

Command:
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" EMBOSS_DIRECTION OFF
/* Specify your font and its size here, depending on the resolution of your pics */
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" FONT_NAME "Times" FONT_TYPE BITMAPPED SET_FONT_SIZE 15
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" RENDER_TYPE MIX
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" SET_COLORS 255 255 255
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" SET_RENDER 100
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" SET_TEXT_STYLE 0
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" TEXT_HANDLE CENTER
        OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" SET_TRACKING 0

Command:
        XSIZE
        COL_WIDTH = ADPRO_RESULT / 5
        YSIZE
        ROW_HEIGHT = ADPRO_RESULT / 4
        TOP_BORDER = .02 * ADPRO_RESULT /* Make an allowance for the top black border*/

        CURR_CAPTION = 0
        DO WHILE CURR_CAPTION < 20
                caption = READLN('infile')
                IF EOF('infile') THEN DO
Command:
                        ADPRO_TO_FRONT
                        OKAY1 TxtFileName || " only contains " || CURR_CAPTION || " captions!"
                        EXIT
                END

                SAY "Placing Caption No." CURR_CAPTION caption

                CURRENT_ROW = CURR_CAPTION % 5
                CURRENT_COL = CURR_CAPTION // 5

Command:
                Xoff = COL_WIDTH / 2 + COL_WIDTH * CURRENT_COL
                Yoff = ROW_HEIGHT * (CURRENT_ROW + 1) *.9 + TOP_BORDER

                OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" STRING caption
                OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" SET_XOFFSET Xoff SET_YOFFSET YOff
                OPERATOR "TEXT_VISUAL" DRAW

                CURR_CAPTION = CURR_CAPTION + 1
        END

Command:
        CALL CLOSE('infile')

        EXECUTE

        SaveFileName = OUT_PATH || "Pic." || right("000" || CURR_PIC,4)
        SAY "Saving " || SaveFileName
        SAVE SaveFileName IMAGE /* Put specifics for you save loader here */
        IF RC ~= 0 THEN DO
                ADPRO_TO_FRONT
                OKAY1 "Could Not Save " SaveFileName
Command:
                EXIT
        END

        CURR_PIC = CURR_PIC + 1
END
SAY
SAY "ALL DONE!  BYE!!"
SAY

begin 777 Pics.txt.lha
Command:
M(JHM;&@U+94   #5    (YG[&@  #%!I8RXP,# Q+G1X=&$& *M2DVVH-SSQX
M$[9N%#!AZXZQ=0EDQ;)P;SE%1D !-)]-J3ZMMN4PP(6),5XX*P86(9Y*_O>!X
M/>-_0WK1'J&.](13S,;W_D[;$&*IZ)FIK0RO\*PPPB3G!%/Q]C,;/7C,UAUDX
M2-SH3"896B%Y"1NGO4:(P2LM_CF5GHWZ1E&Q[AFXHH=JQTOHMFHJ!W(SY\D*X
M7#0;7  B7"UL:#4ME    ,T    IF?L:   ,4&EC+C P,#(N='AT6,, K%NWX
M;2D%\]^#GX#>\8.YS(R/CO8HEA372ZZ$/G+'+  206!(Y9!@3BD962CV8@PLX
MCG W#%7CLJOH';^J>1C,+S=,>GJ]D$&KG* L]0@N^1- T*Z[9Y\!^V.6O=;>X
M] C)AI?FY-Y:<?_<$2J.Q1+FC06H'SJZLN1?5Q>TI*$:"[DP>";8YBZW4NUSX
M_+3U#R2)NK3 (B0M;&@U+:(   #3    PIK[&@  #%!I8RXP,# S+G1X=)^5X
M ,);EJVVH'S_\(BW94X#"JU#)'(]*]<U'9(G'0)XY0)  #1?HDGZ$W=3&#)MX
Command:
MY?L:2J,..]\7K-FFPQ4K#%K5<EQ)BH4#')D/7V*)X'J.:G!V2&E)N.?VB])KX
MJ,E*M;:120RXA&P]_Y!N3&,SN?L,TE'M/='&=Y;I#)&+QX,=3HZ*?_;ZF\/(X
MTW)5I/]'P<M9WZ+YV6W)-Z*=1]&JS_+@]N# (L\M;&@U+8H   #%    )WC\X
M&@  #'!I8RXP,# T+G1X=/VC )]3<W$H+7W XE]& $8,*!3:>Q^$T-#,W@,_X
MCEZ)  9;?:.QNR0"E-:+Z*158A2K-#N?\MSK4=#_"[RN34YU=R)3L48Q"KA%X
MJD85H1N3"\ L9<BGR0L=%4PM,>)88LYP"UE.0>-U0;F*?+Y+#XCBO1_4?HO1X
MDXAY3&<&S;V.LIAMF;WY<X 7CH  (@8M;&@U+:4   #H    H53\&@  #'!IX
M8RXP,# U+G1X=+>+ +U;LJVVH/YWP,. 6I1'@$*)1(WFF<^E&AVNYQW;7CE,X
M B0 &RW*CPAJ.34>I2I> L]FC^B^F>!X*0HZWQ6N4DU!3-Z0=A62X&0RFU:%X
MY7C@IPFVRX$[I>^5@+@N8IV%?GA6U+]I>G)V,V5"R;3!WC*F_G%7+U;?HH_YX
Command:
MLU!PZ&F,UGV1?A.NZ5+VWU^^/=E&.2LU]K,X,:P4]&:+?CV.12H?N.A (F4MX
M;&@U+9@   #4    _%3\&@  #'!I8RXP,# V+G1X=(?? *I<DVTI!-><(OHBX
M_H#B8'[,RD1F$M@VV^MXY060 DXI^(91N\*]4&A X]>@[S!TC?MCQB9=8;VRX
M'0Q1ESL%RI6$9L<-T+WD<=>&*GSH,F<#>Y"CH'(W#\*5+?QH07H3Z26Y%KH%X
M_^:9T64 Z(OIH;[%?M9-?#$@P6.OV4P6D^W?/S49-Y+J5!3D<]K!B0R1B..WX
M,7M&6  BURUL:#4MBP   +T    L>/P:   ,<&EC+C P,#<N='ATO>H J%JVX
MK:=@G'G1&F#X;@81KAW%C;[:P9HTK9L/3DN_   *5Z-]F I7J=A@/*B-BP.2X
M&O]4!BP$L$;UL4!)/8:Q0F>@WN-I<$U.ESYYJ"A01T4<G*%CLD2Q$9_M@L9HX
MW_C8H.B< KJ_-7%ZYNH:(+)%7?+5M#+P/B:OL75Z)85*!V>K%WJ;<%["EG8$X
M(C M;&@U+:$   #E    $%;\&@  #'!I8RXP,# X+G1X=%RC +];DVFW!>=^X
Command:
M(K,);ABRBI%HE>-X&@:'!ZL#@OG(X"0 $TGX:[B@H;)AF^?4RA2P;,<IWX&]X
MR:H.7'\A;*T28',,EJ^ H5@^Q8[3?=:Y)^$44+6G3OPW:L'!POABM[P0>3K(X
MHZI_*XE/@ZT!Y]_^7DQIEX]#A3?,"<"!_:K>?0I0.2A.JY$@<S.NX_,\ARQ^X
MAE8/TLN>C2.N.Z58N&4B:P BQBUL:#4M=@   +,   "*5OP:   ,<&EC+C PX
M,#DN='ATZ8X @E*33;@_.^$K;UV!-C> FR)8F=-16<%\Y.(&@ %Q3?'SH54>X
MPWPMS:P2'#.=&"15%6L=^4*-4CF)>(GA)8*%7]@SZ96N5L$NZ)]N4-#O6V$3X
MI!<@F-">*DSX)0F@\L\1VC(J>],K7*V#P+16N3AY_^#ZPAB (A M;&@U+8, X
M  "]    M5;\&@  #'!I8RXP,#$P+G1X="!G )%3DVTH/SWPD+X$60@2)S5NX
MH&AM;I=18^<MC@8 #+;\"\E244.H>1+>P-^#&+N< QD*&[13:Y5F(8K+@??,X
MZ8!D,!:I+0[E/_MY#%(,M*V%(+-HTI(PS(96\>9C]'Y<+9VW5%=7+<RXL3\DX
Command:
82AZ.*8=1[=1[AH+FU^HQZAHJPV:WE   X
 X
end

Hope someone finds this of use!

Regards from Down Under,
--
   ____ John    ____       Australian Developer   FAX   [phone]
  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
Command:
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
//__//rafix  //__ffects   EMAIL [e-mail]
         OR EMAIL rowe.adsp.sub.org![e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4376 Imagine 3.0
7/28/93 05:46 14/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
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Hello Fellow Imagineers!

Like the rest of you, I've eagerly read the list of improvements in the
forthcoming Imagine 3.0, and it looks pretty impressive. The one improvement
I'd think is most important, and that hasn't been mentioned, is whether the
code has been optimized for the 040. Lightwave 3.0 was optimized and picked up
something like a 5x render increase.

Imagine is already a bit on the slow side. With all the new features, what sort
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of render speeds will we be seeing?

Zach

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4377 So long...
7/28/93 06:13 12/ John J Humpal <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
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Just a note to say goodbye to the list.  I hope this is only temporary
and I'll get net access again soon (we're moving from Baltimore to
Chicago).  I've been a list member almost from the beginning and
I've learned more here than the Imagine manuals could even begin
to tell me.  Special thanks go to Steve and Glenn and of course
Dave for keeping things going so smoothly.  Hope to "see" everyone
again soon.
--
-John

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John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4378 reference books
7/27/93 20:35 28/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
Lines 1 to 10 of 28 (35%)
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     DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a plug (yet).

     I work for a technical bookstore in Portland, or.  We carry computer
books and graphics books and various medical and physics tests.  Any list
that get placed here I will run a check on to determine it's availability
and current price.  If people would then like to get this info, just ask.
I will send it to you.  If enough people are interested I will post the
information about our store (we special order and send books around the
world).
     I run the AMIGA section (as well, I'm the only AMIGA user there) and
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try to maintain every AMIGA title that I can.
     NOT a plug.  But if enough people are interested I will try to wrangle
discounts out of my boss if the mailing list is mentioned.



-- Via DLG Pro v0.995



Command:
     Kreg Branden

          "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around
claiming they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human
species is doing."

          "Relax and enjoy the show."

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4379 edit channels and developers
7/28/93 07:14 57/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 57 (17%)
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Hi everyone
 I don't know if this has been mentioned already (I haven't finished
reading my mail yet) but I've got to defend Impulse just a little.
(granted, they don't have the BEST customer support around, but they
were real pioneers in bringing rendering capabilities to the Amiga
that you formerly could only find on Unix-based workstations)

Whenever you add new and interesting features to a file format
(like an imagine texture) you have to add places to put it.
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I mean, if you didn't know when you first designed the software
that you would be adding some abilities to a file format, you
wouldn't have known what to leave space for and just what type
of space that feature would require.
(add a few places for strings, just for good measure, and later
you need an array of reals, add arrays of reals and it turns out
that you need a whole bunch of booleans - I'm talking about leaving
room for future expansion here)

Command:
My point is: how the heck were the Impulse folks supposed to know
that they would be changing the editors around the way they are now??

Perhaps if they tried to make the new editors downward compatible,
the editors would have not been able to function as powerfully.
Think about this before you flame impulse.

The best thing Impulse could do to support 3rd party developers would
be to create a texture converter program, to make 'em 3.0 compatible.
Then again, the 2.0 textures may not be very inclusive of the
Command:
features available in 3.0, and if they are, Impulse may expect
the developers to update their own software.  This seems reasonable,
considering that Impulse doesn't receive any money from 3rd party
sales.

My problem is I can remember reading about ONE THOUSAND AND ONE messages
complaining about just how unusable Imagine editors are.  People
"make suggestions" about how this editor can't do this, and these
controls aren't paired up the best way, and then Impulse gets the
message and improves things.
Command:

So, you flame Impulse and say they're trying to screw you over.
I never said that they had the best customer support, and from what
I've heard it sounds like it's lousy.  Still, they're trying to make
Imagine a more powerful product so you guys can do nifty
workstation-like stuff on your Amigas.

Give 'em credit for improving your beloved rendering program.

Scott Krehbiel
Command:
[e-mail]






Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4380 Round Up
7/28/93 09:03 75/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
Lines 1 to 10 of 75 (13%)
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Giddy Yap lil Imagineers!   :-)


As you are aware, Dave Ingebretsen sadly lost his employment
in front of our astonished eyes last week.

Not only was Dave an active contributor to our discussions,
and a truly nice guy, he had recently volunteered to be the
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official IML archivist. Hopefully Dave will be joining our
ranks again in the near future from a new, more enjoyable
and secure environment.

Right now however, we need a volunteer to shoulder the
responsibility of the IML archivist position!


_______________________________________________________________
JOB DESCRIPTION:
Command:

IMAGINE MAILING LIST ARCHIVIST-

The IML archivist is a prestige job that will attract
the image conscious individual. Along with extensive
worldwide travel, the IML archivist must be prepared for
high profile editing sessions involving the highly
technical writings of some of todays foremost
computer animators.

Command:
The PERKS of this job include constant badgering
from sites and individuals for archive updates. You will
also benefit from the spelling and grammar corrections of
self-righteous computerists stretching around the globe. Your
decisions will be second guessed and argued by not only your
immediate contemporaries, but by readers of your work
in archive for literally years. You will be made famous by
your errors and celebrated laughingly behind your back for
honest mistakes.

Command:
On the DOWNSIDE, some time must be dedicated to lunches,
dinner parties and nightclub excursions with various
Supermodels and Magazine Cover Women. The danger of
jet lag is a constant companion. You will be forced
to use one of the stable of official IML high powered
sports cars to maintain the list's prestige. Naturally,
you will be expected to attend many of the large and
lavish parties held at the IML Mansion in Beverly Hills
regardless of your busy schedule. (Watch for Hef and myself...
we'll be the ones in the smoking jacket and pajamas.)
Command:


ARCHIVIST PAY-

Previous IML Archivist Marvin Landis comments,
"The IML Archivist position compensation compares quite favorably
 with the pay schedule for other mailing list archivists."


__________________________________________________________________
Command:


Honestly, seriously and truly. We need someone to help with the
archives. If you would be willing to dedicate some time
to helping keep our list rolling along smoothly or would
like to know more about it... please drop me a line as soon
as you can. Thanks.



Command:
Dave Wickard   [phone]    "Every cigarette you smoke takes
[e-mail]          7 minutes off your life. 7 MINUTES!
[e-mail]         I'm 36. If I'd never smoked,
                                  I'd be 42 years old now."

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4381 Re: See-through Mapping
7/28/93 09:40 12/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
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-----
> The tough part was getting all see-through areas in the image to be completey
> (0 0 0) in color 0. Is there any way in ADPro to see which parts of an image
> are colored with color 0 (black)?
>
I usually use Light (the Firecracker paint program) for stuff like this.
The thing is, 24-bit IFF does not use a color lookup table like the lesser
modes, so you probably have to just make sure your color 0 areas are 0,0,0
directly somehow.  If you were using a less color-full mode, you could use
the color requestor to figure it out...

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Command:
_john

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4382 Re: Rerendering Essense II Sample Pic's - AREXX prog 4 capt
7/28/93 10:37 30/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
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-----
John.. I just downloaded, uudecoded, unLHAd your ARexx script and
picture captions and proceeded as instructed in your posting.
ADPro did indeed grind away text-visualing the three of the ten
Essence II thumbnail screens I had rendered so far, and saved them
back off to disk as 640x400 hi-res 16 color. (I had wanted to save
them back off as IFF24, but I'll worry about that later).

However, although everything seemed to proceed as you described
it would and your script did not fail anywhere, when I loaded the
three pics back into ADPro, ALL of the captions for all of the
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thumbnails, instead of being under each thumbnail, were all bunched
up in the upper left hand corner of each picture, on top of each
other. In other words, a blob of overwritten text in that corner
of each picture.

I'm using ADPro 2.3.0, and my Text_Visual operator is
70028 bytes long.

I've no idea what happened to make it come out like this...I just
ran your script without editing it except for removing the mail header
Command:
cruft from the top and bottom.

Any thoughts? Are you using ADPro 2.3.0?

Has anyone else tried John's script and had it perform correctly
or as I described above?

Thanks,
Harv
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4383 hot stuff
7/28/93 12:34 34/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
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-----
Wow! I saw the new toaster 4000 do a demo that was incredible.
    It had a picture of a toaster (the real kind) that was bieng
moved around in real time, The reflections etc. were phenominal.
I hope imagine 3.0 can keep up with this kind of competition, It has
been common in the past of amiga developers who move to the ibm
platform, to find they have to limit capiblities on the amiga side of
their software to stay compatible with the ibm counterpart. light
wave so far appears to be specific to the amiga and is trying to take
full advantage of it's power. (Although I have not seen anyone take
full advantage of the multitasking yet. To submit multiple renderings
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while editing a new scene without loading the whole software package
taking up memory again...).

I am all for multiple platforms, and hope imagine can pull it off and
compete in the amiga world, as well as the IBM because the more money
they have as a company to develop with the better the product should
be right!

    I appreciate scotts message I would like to submit the idea that
contrast comparison between products is an exceptional tool to a
Command:
developer, after all they want to sell more product and the way to do
that is make happy customers. I have a lot of confidence in the
people who have developed imagine and would say that what I have read
about 3.0 is not only a reflection of implementing what was wanted by
it's users but also an attempt to add features that suprise and
delight it's users.(read that in one breath....)

    I hope everyone that has experience on the different rendering
programs will comment on what they would like to see in imagine
and contrast it with tools other packages have. Since I have invested
Command:
my money in imagine and am going to invest much time to it I would
like it to be the best.

                                        Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4384 See-through Mapping
7/28/93 12:36 12/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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> Is there any way in ADPro to see which parts of an image are colored with
> color 0 (black)?
>
> Ramon Colinayo

I'm shooting into the dark here (pun intended ;-) but my approach would
involve locking some of ADPro's palette and making sure that the locked
part (one color) is set to 0,0,0.  I've never tried this, but it just might
work ...

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 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4385 imagine transparency mapping
7/27/93 19:52 6/ [e-mail]
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"Stenciling" imagery onto glass is possible and has been accurately
described here on the list. While the sort of Transparency mapping as in
Lightwave is not supported in Imagine, it isn't really necessary either.
You simply make a small brush with your spaceship decal or whatever, and
make the backround color of the brushmap the same as the object color.
This has the added advantage of being able to "animate" your decal. :)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4386 Re: Weird Beard problems!
7/27/93 00:59 9/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi John (John Rowe), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 26 you wrote:

: Has anyone had any success with hair or got any ideas.

Well so far the only successful way to do hair is to actually create the
hair as an object or multiple object which is grouped! I know it would
create great rendering times...but I have spoken to Steve and there is no
other realistick way to actually create hair though textures since they
are 2D and hair is 3D!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4387 Re: Weird Beard problems!
7/28/93 15:38 49/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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>
> Hi John (John Rowe), in <[e-mail]> on Jul 26 you wrote:
>
>> : Has anyone had any success with hair or got any ideas.
>
> Well so far the only successful way to do hair is to actually create the
> hair as an object or multiple object which is grouped! I know it would

You mean, create each individual strand of hair?  Yow!
Maybe Imagine 3.0's Particle feature supports 'linear' particles - hair, hey?
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Nah, silly idea.

> create great rendering times...but I have spoken to Steve and there is no
> other realistick way to actually create hair though textures since they
> are 2D and hair is 3D!
>

I've read this fact before, but never quite accepted it.
I would think that it would depend on what kind of hair.
Sure, curly hair or wild, unkempt hair would be difficult,
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but relatively "solid" straight hair that forms a fairly
smooth surface should be doable.  Once that surface, or "mat"
is modeled, then why couldn't an appropriate texture, especially
one with altitude, be applied for the subtle variations in
height and color, much like for burnish or seawaves?

The big problem here seems to be in getting the
lines of the texture to follow the flow of the hair.
Straight lines are, in most cases, not going to cut it.
Unless doing a 1960's style ultra straight, blond, hairpiece.
Command:

How about a future spherical hair texture with parameter control over
curliness, thickness, stiffness, some flow control (like turbulence), etc?  8-)
I guess not.

Shoot, if grass can be modeled using textures, as has been discussed,
why can't hair?
Or is it a matter of how much realism is desired or required?
Or how much unrealism is acceptable?

Command:
But, really, I've never tried it, so I'll trust the expert opinion
of Steve Worley  (with a little skepticism ;-).


             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4388 Re: Weird Beard problems!
7/28/93 19:27 6/ [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)
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Try making a beard using some of the methods described here, and surroud it
with a thick fog object. If done right it gives it a softer appearance and
looks ok at a distance.

                                                        Tom Smith
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4389 DXF conversion - which way to go?
7/29/93 18:42 23/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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Hi Ho Imagineers!

I'm facing the question of whether I can render someone's AutoCAD DXF objects
in Imagine.

Can someone please fill me in on where we're at with DXF conversion?

What's the best way to go in terms of price and performance?  Interchange,
Pixel, Vertex or any other option?

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I have the previous versions for Interchange and Pixel 3D so my options
include upgrading either.

Anyone have any ideas or experience in this field?

Thanks in advance...

--
   ____ John    ____       Australian Developer   FAX   [phone]
  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
Command:
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
//__//rafix  //__ffects   EMAIL [e-mail]
         OR EMAIL rowe.adsp.sub.org![e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4390 3.0 and slice?
7/29/93 10:01 13/ [e-mail]
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has anyone read/heard if the new version of Imagine will have a WORKING
slice function? The features list is great but the program will still
have a problematic rep if current problems aren't addressed, IMO.
Has anyone used Aladdin? I'm looking for example data files to learn more.
Regards, Paul Wehner [e-mail]





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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4391 lenses and spheres
7/30/93 01:13 30/ Douglas Benjamin Triggs <[e-mail]>
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Hi.

I just recently purchased Imagine2.0 and Essence (v1.0).  Anyway, I
had a couple effects I was wanting to try, and I was wondering if
anyone on the IML had any ideas.  Forgive me if my questions have been
covered before at some point, I didn't see anything about them in
the IML FAQ.

First, I thought it might be interesting to build a lens object to use
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in a magnifying glass.  I tried a couple of things (squashing sphere
primitives, fooling around with the spherical texture, etc), but
unfortunately my attempts were failures (hopefully I just did
something silly).  At any rate, has anyone ever done this sort of
thing or have any ideas?  I want to get a smooth magnification; merely
building a lense (relatively difficult in itself but certainly doable)
out of polygons wouldn't quite suffice, I want to get a perfect lens
for those arbitrarily high resolution pics (say, 2048 x 1536 for a
really good printer).  Is there something simple that will work?

Command:
Second, I'm in the position of wanting to render a globe.  I have a
bitmap with outlines of the countries and other sorts of things, but
of course, this gets distorted near the poles as relatively vertical
lines get squished into invisibility, or at least non-proportionality,
making the equatorial lines overly prominent.  Does anyone have any
good ideas for compensating for this?

Thanks,

doubt
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4392 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/30/93 06:03 25/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Note: This is a forwarded post sent to me accidentally.

I've read something in the Mailing list that seems wrong to me :
> Subject: Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
>
> Imagine has a bug which makes it impossible to make something perfectly
> transparent using a brushmap filter. This is probably only noticable if your
> brushmap only covers a portion of your glass. In which case there will be a
> rectangle around your picture that's not-so transparent. ....

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In fact, if you try to use a Dpaint (for example) black&white picture as a
filter map, and if it is a 4bit images (as it was in my case), the R, G & B
value is 15 (or 1111 in binary). If you convert it to 24bit, it is 11110000 (for
each component). So it's only 240 and not 255, it is not totally transparent.
When I try to use a perfect white (made whith ADPro or TVPaint, I mean a 24bit
white), you get a perfect transparent map.
In the manual, I can remember it's not very well described, but they say that
you can specify a "Max Value" for the filter map (I am not in front of my Amiga,
so I'm not sure where it is, but I think it is in the Brush map requester). So
if you specify 240, the perfect transparent will be from 240 and up, and you
Command:
will be able to use filter maps coming from non-24bit paint programs.

Hope it will help.

Robin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4393 SIGGRAPH
7/30/93 08:03 11/ scott a king <[e-mail]>
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Hi all,

So is anyone going to SIGGRAPH.  I'm sure quite a few of us are.  It would be
nice to meet some of the members of the list.  Is anyone interested in meeting
or even going?  I'll be there Tuesday through Sunday morning.


DEEP THOUGHTS:  Maybe if we met each other we'd get less flaming?
--
Scott
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4394 Re: reference books
7/30/93 08:58 26/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 27 Jul 1993, Kreg Branden wrote:

>      DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a plug (yet).
>
>      I work for a technical bookstore in Portland, or.  We carry computer
> books and graphics books and various medical and physics tests.  Any list
> that get placed here I will run a check on to determine it's availability
> and current price.  If people would then like to get this info, just ask.
> I will send it to you.  If enough people are interested I will post the
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> information about our store (we special order and send books around the
> world).
>      I run the AMIGA section (as well, I'm the only AMIGA user there) and
> try to maintain every AMIGA title that I can.
>      NOT a plug.  But if enough people are interested I will try to wrangle
> discounts out of my boss if the mailing list is mentioned.
>

I'm interested in the books you carry, esp. those relating to Computer
graphics art, etc. Could you post some more info please?
Command:

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4395 Anyone experience with film
7/30/93 13:50 8/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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I wonder if anyone out there ever produced a spot for a cinema.

I am interested in the technique used for transfer to film,
thje resolution, additional costs and or course payment !
#
Thanks
Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4396 Re: SIGGRAPH
7/30/93 13:07 16/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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I will be attending SIGGRAPH on Wednesday the 4th, and plan to spend some
time in the Amiga suite from 10 to noon.  I'm going to do a small
rendering to wear as a personal badge.  I also live about five miles from
the Anaheim Hilton, so if you out-of-town types want to socialize after
hours, or want a local to recommend stuff to do around town, let me know.

Has anyone besides me noticed the scarcity of Amiga-based businesses in the
SIGGRAPH attendees list?  Even NewTek seems to have blown off this year...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
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[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4397 Re: Anyone experience with film
7/30/93 13:15 58/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 30 Jul 1993, Hannes Heckner wrote:
>
> I am interested in the technique used for transfer to film,
> the resolution, additional costs and of course payment !
>

I don't know anything about the commercial end of things, but I do have a
friend who helped produce the 'nuking L.A.' sequence from Terminator 2.
They render all their output at 2048 lines, which he says is industry
standard for 35mm feature films.
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My company recently purchased (with some nudging from me, of course) a
Polaroid Digital Palette CI-5000 film recorder.  This got good reviews from
the computer press as the best available value for your money, and I can
highly recommend it for someone who wants to start producing 35mm or 4x5
film from their renderings.  It supports resolutions up to 4096 lines, but
even my test renderings at 512x385 (to match the instant print film
aspect ratio) look great.

The basic system will set you back about $5,000.  Running from the Amiga,
Command:
you will also need to buy a cable and driver software from ASDG.  On the
PC, the bundled software includes neat stuff like direct image file print
(TIFF, PCX, BMP and other formats) and Postscript support.

The polaroid instant print film runs about $1.25 per shot, but almost any
decent quality 35mm film will work.

If you want to transfer _animations_ to film, you're talking another
several grand (I don't have an exact price) for a pin-register film back;
this makes sure each frame of film is placed in EXACTLY the same position
Command:
for the transfer, and is crucial to make sure your projected animation
doesn't jump all over the screen.

Speed of your machine is another consideration; at high resolutions, it
can take several minutes to transfer a single frame to film.  It may even
take as long to record a frame to film as it did to render the frame in
the first place.  Basically, you need to either be saving your frames to a
file server and printing them on a second machine, or have a HUGE amount
of RAM so you can multitask rendering and printing on one machine.  The PC
driver software bypasses this by using the hard drive as virtual RAM, and
Command:
sometimes takes up to 25 _MEGS_ to print a 4,096-line 24-bit color image.

But the pictures are BEAUTIFUL!!!

If anyone attending SIGGRAPH is interested in seeing how this machine
handles Imagine renderings, I'll have a pocketful of instant prints with
me on Wednesday.

Hope this answers some of your questions.  Good luck!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4398 tar
7/30/93 16:52 9/ [e-mail]
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Does anyone know how to decompress tar files on the amiga,
    I wanted to look at some of those demos in the archive
but I don't know how to decompress them.




                                    Thanks in advance
                                          Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4399 hardcopy of my Imagine art
7/30/93 15:14 14/ [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
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Hi all,

I am trying to get some pointers.  What would be the best way to print
my Imagine renderings.  I want the best quality possible.  Photographic
quality would be great.  Is there printers that will do this.  How plentiful
are they. i.e. would there be a local business here in Albuquerque?
Is there somplace I can mail disks to?  How much would it cost?  Or is
a photograph of the computer screen the way to go?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Thanks
Brian Ridout
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4400 Re: lenses and spheres
7/30/93 15:13 27/ [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)
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Douglas asks:

>I thought it might be interesting to build a lens object to use
>in a magnifying glass.

I did that.  I took a sphere with a lot of sections (like 100 circle
and 50 vertical) and used a 2 section plane with the slice command
to cut off the bottom 75% forming a sort of cap.  Dup this
and flip it so that you have two caps with their concave sized meeting.
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This by itself doesn't do anything interesting.  But giving it glass
attributes and jacking up the Index of Refraction you get the magnifying
effect.  I don't remember what index to use.  I morphed the index
across a range to determine the range.

Note that because you have a fairly complex object with lots of
faces and have adjusted the index of refraction that render times
will go way up.  Also, watch out for the Imagine bug that crashes the
Amiga if rendering with glass objects and more than 1 shadow
Command:
casting lightsource.

Have fun!
        Mike
--
Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Laboratory
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4401 Siggraph
7/30/93 17:06 9/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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I will be going on Thursday.   I think if we all met at 1:00pm for lunch,
that would make some sense, and then if we wanted to wander around as a group,
we could.  I have to do some research while I am attending, but for the most part,
I can chase down whatever is interesting to me, which would obviously be any AMiga presence.
        I can be reached this weekend at [phone], or at work as [phone]
and ask for an extension in the demo lab.

-JOe SOlinsky
Ball Systems Engineering
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4402 Re: hardcopy of my Imagine art
7/30/93 20:23 21/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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The best output for your renderings is to a film recorder.  Check the ads
in the back of VTU, AVG or AmigaWorld for service bureaus that will do
this for you.

Next best is a color 300 dpi or better printer, with decent halftoning
software.  Even a b&w laserprint looks decent, if the halftoning is good.

If you have to photograph your computer monitor, use a long lens from
across the room to minimize the screen's curvature, and mask or paint the
bezel (the plastic frame around your screen) flat black, or reflections
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from the bezel will make it obvious what you did.  Also, reduce the
sharpness of your display to minimize the lines in the photo, and muddy
the focus of your lens JUST A LITTLE for the same reason.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4403 Imagine PC
7/30/93 20:26 4/ Tim Krego <[e-mail]>
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Are there any people here that are using the MS-DOS version of Imagine?
What is the release date for Imagine PC 3.0?  Is it the same as the
Amiga version?

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21400.3.1.4404 Re: Imagine PC
7/30/93 23:26 21/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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Yup, no platform bias here.  You'll even find people (like myself) who use
both platforms.  I run a Dell 486/50 at work for renderings and
animations, but do most of my modeling on my A500 at home.  My stills go
through the PC because it's hooked into a film recorder, but my animations
get transferred to the Amiga for video recording.  From each according to
its abilities...

Your guess is as good as anybody's on the Imagine PC 3.0 release date, but
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.  I'll be happy if it's released
before Christmas.
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Check back issues of the archives for lots of PC bug fixes and advice on
system configuration, which seems to have caused some people lots of trouble.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
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7/31/93 07:37 3/ [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4406 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
7/31/93 07:38 46/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 30 Jul 1993, Dave Wickard wrote:

> >
>
> In fact, if you try to use a Dpaint (for example) black&white picture as a
> filter map, and if it is a 4bit images (as it was in my case), the R, G & B
> value is 15 (or 1111 in binary). If you convert it to 24bit, it is 11110000 (for
> each component). So it's only 240 and not 255, it is not totally transparent.
> When I try to use a perfect white (made whith ADPro or TVPaint, I mean a 24bit
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> white), you get a perfect transparent map.
> In the manual, I can remember it's not very well described, but they say that
> you can specify a "Max Value" for the filter map (I am not in front of my Amiga,
> so I'm not sure where it is, but I think it is in the Brush map requester). So
> if you specify 240, the perfect transparent will be from 240 and up, and you
> will be able to use filter maps coming from non-24bit paint programs.
>

The funny thing that happened to me and I have given up trying to work it
out is that when I was applying an altitude map on a model of an A1200 I
Command:
made, (the alt maps were the vents and the AMIGA sign) I couldn't get the
Alt map to do everything properly. Ok, the bits that were supposed to get
indented did, but the edges of the brush also got indented a bit even
though I made sure the brush was white (255,255,255) and then even set max
value at 240.
Nothing could make it work.

Also, I got 2 Earth Images off an FTP site. One color, one greyshade as a
bump map. Well, they needed to be mapped WrapX, Wrap Z - had to be mapped
this way in fact due to the current Alt. map positioning limitations.
Command:
This came out OK, except for a ridge that formed at the join between the 2
sides of the alt.map. The map has been fixed so that the edges connect
properly and there was nothing funny at these edges (i.e. no white line to
cause the ridge), yet the ridge formed and nothing I tried worked to
remove it.
NO, I remember reading Steve Worley's book on how he got the Basket Ball
object to look right. It does and he used WrapX Wrap Z and an altitude map.
I was just wondering how did he manage to avoid that ridge forming ?

Steve, or anyone else, can you help ?
Command:

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4407 Imagine 3.0 press release on C$erve
7/31/93 08:02 81/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Impulse had a little press release on Compu$erve that talks about Imagine 3.0
both Amiga and PC.

Here goes:


#: 60537 S4/Impulse
    22-Jul-93  07:57:00
Sb: #Imagine 3.0 The release
Fm: Mike Halvorson 74250,774
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To: all

TO ALL: Imagine users worldwide
        We here at Impulse are very excited about the release of Imagine 3.0
to say the least it has been a long time since we brought out a new product
for you users, we are sorry that it has taken so long, but, ( a big but) we
are sure that the wait will be well worth the time.
        If you are on our data base as a registered user you will be
getting a
newsletter very soon, we mailed them by US postal service on Monday July
Command:
19 by
bulk mail, it will take a few days to get to all of you.
        This newsletter will give you an insight to the new features of 3.0
and for those of you who wish, you will be able to order your copy now.  We
will begin to ship the software late in August or early September.  There
will be a minor hold up due to the manual.  We are very excited to
tell you that Phill Shadock of writing fame will be writing the manual, so
all of you can expect a through handling of all the old as well as new
features.
        The cost of the upgrade will be $100.00.  Shipping and handling is
Command:
shown in the newsletter.
        If you want to get your order placed today, please call us at 1800 328
0184 sorry but this is for US orders only, soon we will have a world wide 800
number, as soon as the att I plan gets moving.
        We are very happy with the new features that are found in Imagine,
there are hundreds of new features, too many to try and mention here but alas
the newsletter will do a better job than this note.

  One quick note, Imagine has the very best particle system found on any
platform or software and you will have a great time doing snow and rain and
Command:
butterflys or swarming rocking chairs.
        So to all those who have supported us,we thank you and hope that you
will be as happy with 3.0 as we are.

        FINAL NOTE:   NOTICE TO ALL DEVELOPERS LARGE OR SMALL or even if you
just want to hack around with that new complier.  Impulse wants to make sure
that each of you have all of the data that you need to build support software
for Imagine.  If you want to make textures or FX of your own or you want the
new object file format, please note that on your order or call us direct and
we will get you this information as soon as we have finalized everything.
Command:
        Our goal is to make it as easy as possible to work with Impulse.
     OF special note to those who are making products for Imagine, Impulse
will be making a catalog of support products from around the world. You can
get your product mentioned as detailed in this catalog by sending a
sample of your product to Larry Halvorson.  Larry will review the
product as well as any data sheets that you send, as well as screen shots
or product shots that you
want used in the catalog.  The catalog will be 4 color and will be sent to all
registered users in December.

Command:
        Once again, thanks for waiting and we look forward to hearing what you
think about 3.0.

        Sincerely,

        Mike Halvorson *8)

        Dated july 21 1993  5:00 PM CST

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:
Incidentally, The PC version will be relased at the same time.


Nice of Impulse to make an announcement. Too bad that it seems that they
like to ignore this list...

Nik.
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4408 Re: SIGGRAPH
7/31/93 13:06 11/ [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)
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> Has anyone besides me noticed the scarcity of Amiga-based businesses in the
> SIGGRAPH attendees list?  Even NewTek seems to have blown off this year...

Not a many but there are some... ASDG, Syndesis, and RGB Video Creations
(I think) will all have their own booths.

According to an announcement they made on CompuServe NewTek will be holding a
party at SIGGRAPH one night, and they'll be showing off "a new addition"
to the Toaster....

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Steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4409 Reference book list
7/30/93 17:12 22/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
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     Thanks to all that responded.
     I will post a message in about four days (I'm at home and this is my
week end.  I do my OWN work now) detailing how to contact the store (BBS#
and 800# and address).  MAYBE, I said MAYBE I can swing a discount for IML
peoples. I hope so.  I will not post a list of books.  If you want a list
(Title, Price, Etc) Email me (please keep it short) and put LIST in the
subject line.  I will send it to you as soon as possible.
     Thanks. (Hmmmm, maybe I could get another raise for this.....?)


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-- Via DLG Pro v0.995



     Kreg Branden

          "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around
claiming they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human
species is doing."

Command:
          "Relax and enjoy the show."

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4410 IML Archives
7/31/93 17:07 6/ Tim Krego <[e-mail]>
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Can someone point me to the Imagine PC archives and a FAQ list?  Thanks
in advance.
--
______________________________________________________________
Tim Krego - Promiga | How can one little insulated wire bring
[e-mail]  | so much happiness.  - Homer Simpson
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4411 Re: tar
7/31/93 20:59 6/ "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
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  I encountered the same problem, and I wrote a small un-TAR program, since I
couldn't find one anywhere.  If you want me to send it to you, let me know.
(I can't guarantee what'll happen when you run it, but it worked fine for me.)

  --Andy Church

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4412 vaulted ceilings
7/31/93 18:14 13/ [e-mail]
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Has anyone had any luck in modelling gothic vaulted ceilings? I've tried but
I can't seem to get it right. Thanks for any help...
Paul







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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4413 Adpro Scripts for Imagine
8/2/93 07:42 27/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Note: This post was sent to imagine-relay and is being forwarded by me:


From [e-mail] Fri Jul 30 20:01:46 1993
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 18:06:49 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Jean Jean's Evil Cat)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Adpro Scripts for Imagine

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Hello.  I was hoping someone out there on the list could help me with a script
problem.  I am trying to create a script for AdPro, using the sentry program, which
scans a directory for 24bit IFF frames, converts them to DCTV, saves the converted
picture to another disk, and then deletes the original 24bit file.  The problem I
am having seems to be that the Sentry program is not reading in the filename correctly.
It does all of the above, except that it always saves each file to the same name (
that being 1) no matter what I seem to try.  At best, I have been able to get it to
add the extension .dctv (making the file 1.dctv), but that still saves new files over
Command:
the old ones.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 -Jonathan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4414 Query: to upgrade or not?
8/2/93 08:58 16/ [e-mail] (Peter Mancini)
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        So, Imagine 3.0 is out this month.  So is Essence II.  And their
incompatible.  Life can suck sometimes.  So what do I do?  Get Imagine
3.0 and hope that Essence I and II can be/will be upgraded soon?  Stuff
Impulse and just get Essence II?
        The factors in this decision are 1) I come to rely on Essence
for a good deal of my work.  2) I want a new toy.  3) Both Essence II
and Imagine 3.0 have a lot to offer.  I3 has more to offer but makes a
lot of my software useless (Essence, Morphus, ISL, etc.), while EII has
less to offer, promises to slow down my rendering, yet remains
compatible with my current stock of Imagine projects.
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        What will help me decide:  Anyone know what Apex's porting
schedule is like?  Is Impulse actually following through with their
promise to be helpful to 3rd Party people?  Last but not least, what is
the release date of I3?

--Pete
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4415 Imagine 3.0
8/2/93 10:13 14/ [e-mail] (Jeff Hanna)
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Just got off the phone with Impulse.  Kinda letdown...the TWO things I
really wanted in 3.0, support for the Display Database and support for
Datatypes will not be included...sigh..

I was really hoping we could run the interface in Super72 mode, but I guess
the only way to get a big working area is to use a Merlin/Retina/Dominoe
with a WB patch.

They did say that they will not put in Datatype support, becuase they do
not want to undercut the 3rd party conversion program market.  I can live
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with that.

Jeff Hanna

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4416 Re: 'See-thru' Mapping
8/2/93 09:55 53/ [e-mail] (PJ Foley)
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[e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith) wrote:
Gary Whiteley writes:
>I'm trying to place a brushmap onto a plane but so that only the
>brushmap itself is visible ...

Try this:
Make 2 brushmaps - one of the picture, and one of just the outline of the
picture where everything is black in the picture except the actual drawing
which is white.  Use the 1st brushmap as a color brushmap, and the second
brushmap outline as a filter brushmap.  Put the two brushmaps on your object
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in exactly the same place, and size.  The filter will make everything
transparent except where your picture is, and that will be color.

Problems with this:
Imagine has a bug which makes it impossible to make something perfectly
transparent using a brushmap filter. This is probably only noticable if your
brushmap only covers a portion of your glass. In which case there will be a
rectangle around your picture that's not-so transparent. So the way around that
is use 'Convert ILBM' on a plane with your picture outline.  Then do the above
steps to the new object. (BTW Convert ILBM will act like a cookie cutter and
Command:
cut out the shape of your object into a plane.)  Then you have just the picture
in object form, and you can place it just slightly above the glass. It will look

as if it is pasted on the glass.  But like I said: don't worry about the Convert

ILBM stuff if your brushmap is big enough to cover your entire object.
--------------------------

Well, every good bug has a workaround:

Command:
Extrude the plane you are mapping the 2 bitmaps to with the mold/extrude
option, "To length" (about 5 units should work fine), and use "Mirror
Ends."  Imagine will then render this object correctly.  If your
bitmaps use a 12 bit pallette (non-AGA aware paint program), be sure
to change the full-scale values for both the filter and color maps
to 240.

I have created 100% perfectly transparent objects with floating 2D
graphics inside them this way.

Command:
You may also want to change the scale percentage on the brushmaps
vertically (I believe the Y axis) to about 96%.  This will correct
aspect ratios (which are assumed to be 1:1) of the brushmaps so
they will look proper on NTSC sized screens.

Pj

1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS
 "IF POSSIBLE  STEAL ANY ONE THESE    | [e-mail]|
  DRAWINGS INCLUDING THIS SENTENCE"   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   a
Command:
   - Shusaku Arakawa                  | Has renderer, will travel.|  b dXEN

.,
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4417 Re: Adpro Scripts for Imagine
8/2/93 11:19 25/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>Hello.  I was hoping someone out there on the list could help me with a script
>problem.  I am trying to create a script for AdPro, using the sentry program, which
>scans a directory for 24bit IFF frames, converts them to DCTV, saves the converted
>picture to another disk, and then deletes the original 24bit file.  The problem I
>am having seems to be that the Sentry program is not reading in the filename correctly.
>It does all of the above, except that it always saves each file to the same name (
>that being 1) no matter what I seem to try.  At best, I have been able to get it to
>add the extension .dctv (making the file 1.dctv), but that still saves new files over
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>the old ones.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.

     Include (in arguments) "$SENTRYFRAME $SENTRYFULLPATH" (no quotes).
That should fix your problem.


                                        Christopher

Command:


--
This Way Lies Madness..........                 [e-mail]
(512k A1000, a TV and one floppy ;-).           Fido: 1:340/43, 1:134/92
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4418 HELP: wide-angle lens in Imagine
8/2/93 11:12 9/ [e-mail]
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Hello all!

Is there a way to simulate wide-angle lens in Imagine 2.0 ?
In physical terms: to decrease the distance between the lens
and the projection plane.

HELP!

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4419 Query: to upgrade or not? (fwd)
8/2/93 11:20 26/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|       So, Imagine 3.0 is out this month.  So is Essence II.  And their
|incompatible.  Life can suck sometimes.  So what do I do?  Get Imagine
|3.0 and hope that Essence I and II can be/will be upgraded soon?  Stuff
|Impulse and just get Essence II?

        Does Imagine 2.0 allow you to get your work done?  If the answer
        is yes, hold off on I3 and wait for the Essence upgrade.


|       What will help me decide:  Anyone know what Apex's porting
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|schedule is like?  Is Impulse actually following through with their
|promise to be helpful to 3rd Party people?  Last but not least, what is
|the release date of I3?

        I am in a similar quandry.  Well Mr. Worley, is an upgrade soon in
        the coming?  I want Imagine 3.0, but am hesitant to sacrifice
        Essence in order to do so;  Imagine 2.0 still will do the majority
        of what I'm going to need for a while to come.

        Dale
Command:

       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4420 HELP on filter
8/2/93 11:23 9/ [e-mail]
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Hello all!

I'm having problems with transparent objects (objects with
filter > 0): some faces turn opaque when superimposed.
Example: I built a transparent logo then when I render
the scene from some angles, 2 or 3 faces turn opaque.
What can I do ?

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4421 Genlocks and the Firecracker
8/2/93 12:17 8/ [e-mail] (Peter Mancini)
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        What genlocks are compatible with the Firecracker?  I'd like to
 get the nifty new Sanyo SFC s-VHS deck and I'll want to dump my 24-bit
 anims to it from my Firecracker.  Any info appreciated.

 --Pete


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4422 [e-mail] (You may wanna delete this)
8/2/93 12:59 53/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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With the list so quiet these days, I thought I would throw this out for
everyones enjoyment.  This is from the Netnews. BTW, anyone goto SIGGRAPH
(was it this weekend?)  how was it?

-------Begin Include ---------
From: [e-mail] (Kiernan Holland)

Subject: Re: Which is better:  Caligari 24 or Imagine 2.0?
Date: 2 Aug 1993 06:31:10 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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Lines: 35
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.unm.edu

>>me to make them look like they're made out of rubber?  (A good example of
>>what I'm talking about is the Gummi Life Savers commercial.)
>
>I can't say about Imagine 2.0, but Caligari 24 has an organic deformation
>module in the modeler that allows you to do just that.  You simply define
>an enclosing shape, and when the points on the enclosing shape are moved
>around, the object deforms in an intuitive way to follow suit.
Command:
---break in include
[I would  **LOVE** to see this in Imagine (Not just twist, shear, etc)
-Tom Setzer]
----continue include
SOunds like something I could put into my animation program (non GUI,
but someday it will be) for rayshade... Hmmm.. Tell me more, is it like
a box that encloses the object then determines how to warp the object
according to which vertex on the box is pulled or is the object
mapped and the vertices on the map (not the object) are pulled to warp
the object. Also have you ever heard of anyone using a spine to
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deform objects??? I was thinking about either trying to implement that
or something like a object hierarchy where each point in the spine has
one or several associated objects and when the axis of that point is
rotated the object(s) associated with that point would revolve about its
axis (kind of like in Imagine)..

It is kinda interesting how easy it is to figure this stuff out...

It is really coool, I mean, if I need an effect
now, all I do is dream one up and try to implement it. Beats
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asking the developers to implement specific effects, however there is a
lot more time spent in developing and testing the routine...

If someone has a copy of SAS/C 6.0 (or higher) they need to sell,
I would be glad to buy it... One of the things I wanted to do was port
my UNIX C program to the Amiga and make a GUI interface for it...
I also need one for school (UNM students, I'm taking CS350, if you know
what it is you know what I need the compiler for... icky icky).
Actually I need a C++ compiler but C would do great...

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---------End Include ----------

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4423 join the mailing list
8/2/93 13:07 1/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4424 Re:  HELP: wide angle lens on Imagine
8/2/93 13:07 22/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Please note this post was sent to imagine-relay and is being fowarded by me:


Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1993 15:02:41 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: HELP: wide angle lens on Imagine
To: [e-mail]
X-Envelope-To: [e-mail]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello all!

Is there a way to simulate wide-angle lens in Imagine?
In physical terms: to decrease the distance between the lens and
the projection plane.

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HELP!
Christian Leyen ([e-mail])
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4425 Re:  Query: to upgrade or not? (fwd)
8/2/93 13:46 39/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Here is an answer I got from Steve Worley.  I'm assuming it is OK
        to post it to the list.  If not, my apologies to Steve.


|Quick answer: I'm at SIGGRAPH and time is tight. :-)
|
|Impulse hasn't told me ANYTHING about the 3.0 textures or
|software, so I can't say wether the textures will work or not.
|There's no reason that they should break, but I certainly
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|won't try to predict what Impulse will do. They (Mike H) said
|they would send me any new 3.0 information, but I'm still waiting.
|
|If Imagine 3.0 doesn't work with Essence, I can't predict any
|porting schedule, since I don't have 3.0.  The best solution of
|course is Impulse to use the original (working!) texture format
|even if they put a new front end on...
|
|anyway hope this helps. I can't tell you anything definate, since
|Impulse hasn't told me diddley. :-(
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|
|-Steve

        Does anyone know if the texture format has been changed?

        In any event, the Compuserve post from Impulse indicated that they
        are willing to work with their 3rd party developers.  If this is
        accurate, I would think a port would be appropriate.  Judging by
        Steve's response, it appears that Essence may very well work with
        Imagine 3 and all of this concern may be unwarranted.
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        Dale


       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4426 Imagine2 objects
8/2/93 14:53 22/ [e-mail]
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Howdy everyone!

    This is my first posting on the Imagine mailing list..  Probably a long
overdue one. :)  For those of you into kuellecting Imagine 2.0 objects,
look in Portal or ftp via wuarchive.wustl.edu for the following:

1702D-IM.LHA  USS Enterprise 1701-D.. Recently point reduced, smaller and
              faster.  No loss of detail.

SpeakrFON.LHA Um, it's a telephone! :)  It looks nice tho...  Like one of
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              those slick Caligari renderings.

A3002-IM.LHA  An Amiga 3000 with keyboard.

Stingray.LHA  Mean little purple attack spacecraft.  Shareware.



Enjoy!

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Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4427 Re: [e-mail] (You may wanna delete this)
8/2/93 15:47 4/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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Gee, Can anyone UUencode their SAS/C6.0 and email it to kiernan?  THE WHOLE
THING?  I'm sure he'd *LOVE* that.  Wasted bandwidth and all....  :-)

Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4428 UNSUBSCRIBE ME
8/2/93 21:23 9/ STEELE SHAWN CHARLES <[e-mail]>
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UNSUBSCRIBE ME
(please)







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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4429 Re: Imagine2 objects
8/2/93 22:02 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 2 Aug 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

> Howdy everyone!
>
>     This is my first posting on the Imagine mailing list..  Probably a long
> overdue one. :)  For those of you into kuellecting Imagine 2.0 objects,
> look in Portal or ftp via wuarchive.wustl.edu for the following:
>
> 1702D-IM.LHA  USS Enterprise 1701-D.. Recently point reduced, smaller and
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>               faster.  No loss of detail.
>
> SpeakrFON.LHA Um, it's a telephone! :)  It looks nice tho...  Like one of
>               those slick Caligari renderings.
>
> A3002-IM.LHA  An Amiga 3000 with keyboard.
>
> Stingray.LHA  Mean little purple attack spacecraft.  Shareware.
>
Hi Carmen, Nice to see you joined the IML at last!
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Welcome aboard.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4430 Re: Imagine 3.0
8/2/93 22:50 28/ [e-mail]
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Jeff Hanna writes:
>
> Just got off the phone with Impulse.  Kinda letdown...the TWO things I
> really wanted in 3.0, support for the Display Database and support for
> Datatypes will not be included...sigh..
 [...]
> They did say that they will not put in Datatype support, becuase they do
> not want to undercut the 3rd party conversion program market.

WHAT?!?  Well, *excuse* me for upgrading to an operating system that
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actually contains improvements that may undercut 3rd-party developers.
Thank goodness that forward-thinking software companies like Impulse can
help prevent me from compounding my mistake by actually getting my hands on
software that _supports_ these features!

> I can live
> with that.

Personally, I'm hoping that they _remove_ animation support, so as to
better open up the 3rd party animation-compiler market.  In fact, they
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really should remove _all_ present features and ship only blank
disks...this way, 3rd party developers would be able to provide every
single function!

<sarcasm off>

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4431 essence,Imagine 3.0
8/2/93 22:50 13/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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to those debating buying Essence II, or waiting for Imagine 3, or
fretting one won't work without the other...
Essence I and II exist TODAY. Imagine 2.0 exists TODAY.
Don't rely on shipping dates 'til the package is in your hands ;-)
Trust in Steve and Glenn to support your purchase of Essence TODAY.
If there needs to be some tweaking, i for one have full confidence
that they will address it forthwith-(as long as they don't take
any time out from porting to lightwave :-))
You could be running Essence II textures right this minute ! what are
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you waiting for ? :-) :-) :-)
(yet another plug for essence II, just in case you didn't get it...)
kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4432 imagine archive deleted?
8/2/93 23:35 8/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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I just logged onto wuarchive, and there was a quaint little message saying,
"Oops, we deleted all the incoming files for boing (of which the imagine
archive is a part).  Does anyone know if this stuff will be replaced, or are
we back to square one once again?  First hubcap, now wuarchive, although we
still have a site, just no files in it.  Has anyone else checked on this?


                                                      Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4433 SigGraph do us a favor?
8/3/93 07:53 13/ [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)
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I hope some of you lucky few who make it this year will stop by
the ViewPoint Booth and pick up the free datasets (oh please
pretty please)
Then upload them to Aminet or Wuarchive
I got a postcard from Viewpoint yesterday mentioning the free datasets
(Nice Dodge Viper on the postcard, probably NOT one of the free sets
though 8-)

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Wish I were there,
Adam B

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4434 AMIGA books in store
8/2/93 23:07 23/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
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     To fred:  No, we have not been clearing the section (I've beefed it up
since I came on), there just are not that many AMIGA books to be had.  I
try to order everything (and I come very close), but a few publishers are
VERY small and obscure (and they don't answer their phones).  If there is
something you want and we don't have it, just ask.  If they say we can't
get it, ask for Kreg (me) and I will do my damndest to get it.


     "Fighting the good fight for the AMIGA...:-)"

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-- Via DLG Pro v0.995



     Kreg Branden

          "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around
claiming they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human
species is doing."
Command:

          "Relax and enjoy the show."

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4435 Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
8/3/93 08:54 17/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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Hello,
        In my neverending quest for the perfect work environment, it hamy awareness that knowing the Imagine file format would be a really nice thing
if one were to use Imagine objects and scenes in a real-time application.
Hence, to whomever it was related to Impulse that mentioned that to developers,
you would release file format information, I beseech you to do so.  With this
gesture, I can guarantee that should my other efforts also succeed, you all
would be witness to a new niche for Imagine users.  The simulator business.  A new,
inexpensive industry standard.  Better than what is on the SGIs in terms of
building objects, I would rather see Imagine storming Siggraph rather than
something like Multi-Gen.
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        Again, I would like to receive this information when it is available,
or at least be assured that it can be arranged upon a purchase.  This will
benefit all of us to have Imagine in a new development market.
-Joe Solinsky
Ball Systems Engineering

PS:  Don't worry about David Ingbretsen being out of a job.  Nothing solid, but I did line him up with my boss and he may be working here.  Anyone else unemployed? (shh, Scot.  I know.)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4436 Re:  Imagine 3.0
8/3/93 09:05 7/ [e-mail] (PJ Foley)
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Here's a thought:  Is not using Datatypes undercutting a third party in
itself (Commodore?).

I can't believe there's no display database.  Why don't they finally use
WB2.0 standard feratures that ALL utility programs should use.

PJ
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4437 limb example
8/3/93 11:11 17/ [e-mail]
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Hello all:
    has anyone out there had any problem working through the imagine
manual? I have successfully completed the book from pg 1 to 219
the only problem I have had is the limb example on page 151-152 with
some work I got the results I wanted but the axis information was all
weird and rotated in completely different places than expected by the
book.
    Am I wasting time learning this? Is 3.0 going to be different in
this area?
    I did get the ping pong ball to explode, what a great first
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experience! So far for all the complaints about imagine I have heard
and compared to the ease of lightwave I am still very happy with my
purchase. Hopefully someday I will actually do something worth
posting.
                                                      Lesk


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4438 Re: limb example
8/3/93 11:51 11/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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To tell you the truth, I personally have never used the 2.0 manual.  I
learned on 1.0 - and I thought that tutorial manual (despite some HUGE
oversights) was much easier to follow.  Buy Understanding Imagine 2.0 by
Worley.

In RR's defense, however, I have heard that the 2.0 manual can be a help.  I
just don't have the time to plow through it, and the index is nearly
nonexistent.


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                                                             Rob
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4439 Re: SigGraph do us a favor?
8/3/93 12:41 16/ [e-mail]
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I have the free SIGGRAPH giveaway ViewPoint dataset (object) disks
with me right now. Stood in a LONG line to get them.. got both
Imagine & Lightwave formats. I don't even know what the objects
ARE... I have my CDTV back in my hotel room so I'll try to post
them tonite if I can.. if not, tomorrow. But don't worry, I'll
post them one way or another, to both Portal and to Aminet (unless
someone else beats me to Aminet).

BTW... this is the *first* computer convention I've ever been to
that has had banks of Internet-connected terminals set up for free
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use by attendees... there are two "rooms" with about two dozen
terminals (Dec VT420) in each, and they're constantly pretty busy.
The people who run SIGGRAPH are definitely Internet-hip.

Harv
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4440 WUARCHIVE IN DANGER?!?
8/3/93 12:05 10/ [e-mail] (Peter Mancini)
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        Ya know,
I had no idea that Washington Univeristy was in St. Louis, MO.  And
after looking at pictures of what they've got behind their levy I wonder
if wuarchive isn't in danger of getting a tad wet, thus destroying a
very valuable source of amiga wares.  Does anyone have an hard facts
concerning the 'current' state of dange in St. Louis?  Also, could we
lose Soft Logic?

--Pete

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4441 Decals
8/3/93 19:14 15/ [e-mail]
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Ok you Imagine type people you, I got an easy question for you.  I have just
finished doing a real cool space-station object (IMHO) and I am ready to put
some brush maps onto it.  Here is my question.  How can I apply a map like a
decal?  So far I have the object attributes set to a bluish metal (steel?)
and I have done a 16 color IFF of windows and bays and other things you
would find on a space-station.  My background color on the IFF is black.
When I try to wrap it, my object becomes black and all you can see are the
windows and stuff.  I have a feeling that I should be doing two different
wraps but I just don't seem to get it.  Any way that's my question, I'm sure
the answer is right in front of me but I need you help.  E-mail me with your
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answers and I'll post it back to the list.

Thanks
Joe Cotellese
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4442 Viewpoint objects uploaded
8/3/93 21:58 27/ [e-mail]
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Tonite I uploaded the 5 free "datasets" (objects) handed out at
SIGGRAPH '93 by Viewpoint. They are in Imagine format >>duh<< and
I've uploaded them to both Portal's Amiga Zone and to Aminet
via ftp.wustl.edu in /pub/aminet/new. Whenever they are moved to the
appropriate dir of aminet you'll be able to get to them. Unless you're
a Portal user in which case you can get to them now. The 5 objects
comprise a set of "beach" objects including a sandal, a shark,
a '57 Chevy, and a female human object, and a surfboard.

I also picked up a copy of Viepoint's new 200 page catalog. Browsing
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thru it I found that the free objects they gave out LAST year
(Al Capone, the '32 Dodge, and etc.) are selling for rather
amazing prices.. Al is like $350, the Dodge is $450 and so on.

They've also added some rather amazing objects of landmarks, such
as St. Basil's Cathedral in Moscow, the entire Capitol Bldg.
in Wash. D.C., and many others. Impressive stuff. And muy expensive.
Viewpoint's objects sell from $50 up to $5000 and beyond. EACH.
I'm usin my CDTV from my hotel room and have no 3D software with
me right now with which to view these new objects.. If they are like
Command:
the previous sets they are colored all white and you will have to
apply your own colors to them when you render them.

Enjoy.

Harv
[e-mail], from somewhere in Anaheim :)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4443 Subscription
8/3/93 19:00 15/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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Please be informed of my desire to be included on your newsletter mailing
list for Imagine owners. I found out your address and subscription on GEnie,
where my mail address is M.Brown111. Alternatively, my usenet/internet
address is Michel J. [e-mail]. Is the subscription email based or
do you need my home/office address? Thanks again for your support, God Bless,
and I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.

Warm regards,

Michel J. Brown
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--
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4444 REAL 3D for windows...
8/3/93 23:06 8/ James N Garrett <[e-mail]>
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well...I just opened it...it includes the win32s library alowwing the
program to run in 32 bit mode like windows nt programs...I haven't fooled
with it enough yet to make any comments...but the manual is very sharp
looking and the program has a DONGLE!!!...I did not know this...oh
well...off to experiment...later, James Garrett d' glazdham



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4445 Cracked rock
8/4/93 00:25 27/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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I've been trying to create some letters set into a cliff face.  I'm
going to do the cliff face in VistaPro since I have to animate  a fly-
through up to it, and I'm going to use Morphplus to have the letters
extrude themselves from the cliff face, and we're gonna use a Jazz to
make the picture jiggle while they extrude... should be a neat effect.
All I need from Imagine is some letters that look like rock.  With
a combination of Varyrelbright and Roughness I can make a fair
approximation of rock, but cracks are missing.  I want some cracks in
my rocks, and I can't seem to find a way to do it with Essence I...
I've been trying to use VeinedMarble for about 4 hours now and I just
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can't get it to give me craggy lines.  In fact, I can't get it anywhere
near the sample picture in the book, even using the default settings...
I get these straight or gently curving lines which are otherwise pretty
much what I need.

Any ideas?  Short of buying Essence II of course.

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
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.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
|Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone].|
>-------------------------------------------------..------------------------<
|"Only the rays of the sun can destroy the rock of|| Buy a Commodore Amiga: |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4446 Re: SIGGRAPH
7/31/93 21:11 7/ occult!phillips (Peter Phillips)
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How much does SIGGRAPH attendance cost?

Thanx

                                                         Peter Phillips
                                                         occult![e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4447 Re: Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
8/4/93 01:48 38/ R Hawkes <[e-mail]>
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> Hello,
>       In my neverending quest for the perfect work environment, it hamy awareness that knowing the Imagi> ne file format would be a really nice thing
> if one were to use Imagine objects and scenes in a real-time application.
> Hence, to whomever it was related to Impulse that mentioned that to developers,
> you would release file format information, I beseech you to do so.  With this
> gesture, I can guarantee that should my other efforts also succeed, you all
> would be witness to a new niche for Imagine users.  The simulator business.  A new,
> inexpensive industry standard.  Better than what is on the SGIs in terms of
> building objects, I would rather see Imagine storming Siggraph rather than
> something like Multi-Gen.
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Funny you should mention this, we've been chasing Imagine for such information
for several months now.  Progress has been complicated because we are PC
users - NOT using DOS (he says quickly).  We have been using 3DS but we can't
get the texture information we need from the .3DS file (we're using real-time
texturing image generators hooked up to PC's).  It's also non-hierarchical -
big problem.  So we started looking around which is how we got to Imagine.
I've worked in the simulation industry where Multigen (of course) was
prevalent but is too limiting in cost and platform.  There's definitely a
market for a low-cost low-end hierarchical polygonal-based modeler.
Command:

I've never seen Imagine (just heard about it).  It seems to me that in
the simulation market you have to cater for a wide range of IG's, each
with there own specialist information.  Whether it be separating plane
positions, co-planar polygon priorities or properties such as mass, axis
of movement etc...  I don't believe Imagine (or any modeler I know) allows
an user-defined lump of data to be inserted as an element in the model
hierarchy.  I think that if Imagine did this they would really open up
the simulation modeling market and make my life easier. :-)

Command:
Rych

======================================================================
Rycharde Hawkes                         email: [e-mail]
Virtual Environment Laboratory
Dept. of Psychology                     Tel  : [phone]
Univ. of Edinburgh                      Fax  : [phone]
======================================================================
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4448 Re: Rerendering Essense II Sample Pic's - AREXX prog 4 capt
8/4/93 16:41 42/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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G'Day all!  On Jul 28, Harv wrote:

>However, although everything seemed to proceed as you described
>it would and your script did not fail anywhere, when I loaded the
>three pics back into ADPro, ALL of the captions for all of the
>thumbnails, instead of being under each thumbnail, were all bunched
>up in the upper left hand corner of each picture, on top of each
>other. In other words, a blob of overwritten text in that corner
>of each picture.

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Hmmm... very strange...

Sorry you're having trouble.  :-(

I encountered some strange quirks in the Text Visual operator when I was
writing the prog.

It was tending not to centre text correctly on the point I specified when the
operator's "center" option was set.  I found that the amount of this strange
erroneous offsetting varied depending on the font I was using; some worked,
Command:
some didn't.  This only appeared when I was testing the operator interactively
however, later when I was controlling it through AREXX these problems
disappeared.

Are you still using the Times font I used, or are you using another?

>I'm using ADPro 2.3.0, and my Text_Visual operator is
>70028 bytes long.

Well, I haven't actually upgraded, I'm still using 2.1.0
Command:

I tried 320 * 200 HAM, but I haven't tried 640 * 400 16 colour.  I'll give it
a burl and let you know.

Anyone else run into trouble?

--
   ____ John    ____       Australian Developer   FAX   [phone]
  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
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         OR EMAIL rowe.adsp.sub.org![e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4449 Problems using VistaPro+Imagine - MAJOR VISTAPRO BUG
8/4/93 18:44 45/ [e-mail] (John Rowe)
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For the Noah's Ark animation I'm working on I decided to use Imagine for what
its best at - rendering objects, and to use VistaPro for what its best at -
rendering landscapes.  I figured that if I created a path for the camera to
fly along in Imagine, and was able to translate all those points into a
VistaPro script, if I was careful, I could paste the two together and have
the Ark seemlessly blend with the landscape.

Well all went went until I discovered a major deficiency in VistaPro.

It truncates all camera and target positions into whole metre integers!
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So that nice smooth spline curve path in Imagine turns into an effect not
unlike falling down stairs in VistaPro - very jerky.  :-(

But wait a minute, the sample scripts that come with VistaPro contain
positions to 2 decimal points and their produced by Virtual Reality Labs own
MakePath program.

So I rang Virtual Reality Labs.  VistaPro does truncate all positions to
integers.  The MakePath scripts are similarly truncated by it as well.  It
Command:
always has!

And their reason?  The programmer says VistaPro only uses integer math
calculations and it's too hard a job to change it.  PULL THE OTHER ONE GUYS!
I'm using the floating point version of the program!  And it will accept and
use camera pitch, roll and bank inputs in 2 decimal places no problem.

They have no plans to fix this!

VistaPro has just been demoted from a highly useful tool IMHO, to a stills
Command:
only utility.

Has anyone had experience with Scenery Animator???  How's the latest version?

Are its images as good a quality as VistaPro's, can you control it through a
script file and does it really use accurate camera positioning or just
truncate to the nearest metre as well?

Any one have any ideas?
--
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  //      Rowe //               Christian         VOICE [phone]
 // __        //--          Amiga Programmer, Renderer, 3-D Animator
//__//rafix  //__ffects   EMAIL [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4450 Viewpoint objects uploaded
8/4/93 06:46 30/ [e-mail]
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Text item: 8/04/93 12:58AM (IA5Text Enclosure)

Hi Harv,
 In a previous post you wrote:

>I've uploaded them to both Portal's Amiga Zone and to Aminet
>via ftp.wustl.edu in /pub/aminet/new.

Thanks much, I will be looking for them!
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> I also picked up a copy of Viepoint's new 200 page catalog. Browsing
>thru it I found that the free objects they gave out LAST year (Al
>Capone, the '32 Dodge, and etc.) are selling for rather amazing
>prices.. Al is like $350, the Dodge is $450 and so on.

Where are these?  I have the 32dodge, but never saw anything else
Does someone have a list of all the freebies handed out by Viewpoint?
As you can see they are well worth having, almost "collectors items"
8-)
Command:

> They've also added some rather amazing objects of landmarks, such
> as St.  Basil's Cathedral in Moscow, the entire Capitol Bldg. in
> Wash.  D.C., and many others.  Impressive stuff. And muy expensive.

Hey, digitizing the capital probably required quite a bit of manpower.
Not to mention the security clearance required.  8-)

Adam B.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4451 Re: Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
8/4/93 14:00 54/ [e-mail] ()
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On Aug 4,  9:48am, R Hawkes wrote:
> Subject: Re: Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
>
>
> I've never seen Imagine (just heard about it).  It seems to me that in
> the simulation market you have to cater for a wide range of IG's, each
> with there own specialist information.  Whether it be separating plane
> positions, co-planar polygon priorities or properties such as mass, axis
> of movement etc...  I don't believe Imagine (or any modeler I know) allows
> an user-defined lump of data to be inserted as an element in the model
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> hierarchy.  I think that if Imagine did this they would really open up
> the simulation modeling market and make my life easier. :-)
>
I use to use Imagine, but I bought Real 3D. This software is provided with a
Language, which can be used to assign mathematical formulas to objects, with
collision detection. So this is maybe what you look for. I don't know if this
capabilities will be in Imagine 3.0, but I think they should, as Impulse said
"We don't want people to be waiting for version 4 after a few days of using
Imagine 3.0.
Let's wait for the release ...
Command:

Robin
> Rych
>
> ======================================================================
> Rycharde Hawkes                               email: [e-mail]
> Virtual Environment Laboratory
> Dept. of Psychology                   Tel  : [phone]
> Univ. of Edinburgh                    Fax  : [phone]
> ======================================================================
Command:
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from R Hawkes




--

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      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4452 Powell's Technical Books
8/3/93 20:34 66/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
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     Thanks for the great response.  A few things have changed my plans on
posting lists of books, we're going on the Internet within two weeks.  I
thought it was going to take longer.  This is good as it saves me from
typing pages and pages and pages and....

     The store:  Powell's Technical Books
                    33 nw Park ave.
                    Portland, OR 97219

                    503-228-3906   (local)
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                    1-800-225-6911  (I think that will work in canada)

                    BBS 503-228-0807 (local only)

     As soon as our connection is up and running I will post the Internet
address so that people can access the database somewhat directly.  I
recommend the german persons interested in our store wait the week or so to
save themselves some money.
     I worked it out with my boss so that anyone from the IML gets a
Command:
discount! It only applies to AMIGA books.  And only to new and used (the
only two books we have in the AMIGA section that are not 'new' or used is
Worleys Understanding Imagine 2.0 and Arexx some issues in programming).
The discount is 10%.  I wanted more, but she was steadfast.  Just be sure
to mention the IML.
     I have explained to the other workers that there will be requests for
a wide range of titles, including stuff we may not have.  (please treat
them nice, I like them)  Anything you want that we don't have in stock we
can pretty much order.  Most of the animalrelated books we don't have on
the shelves, but we can get.  I will be putting in orders for some of those
Command:
books
in the next day or two.
     Anything we have to special order you can expect to take from two to
six weeks to get to us.  The basic rule of thumb is that if it comes from a
resell company it will take two weeks or less.  Publishers take longer
(except Mr. Worley!).
     We can ship around the world.

     Even if you aren't buying AMIGA books, please mention that you are
from the IML.  I'm keeping a log.  If the response is good enough I will
Command:
push for a more general discount :-)

     I hope this will help many of you out.  Last time I checked (today) we
still had five copies of Steve Worleys book.  If you need to talk to
someone (somewhat) knowledgable about the AMIGA, just ask for Kreg (me) and
I will help you if I am there (not after five p.m.)

     Oh yeah, the store is open 9am to 9pm monday through saturday and noon
to 7pm on sundays.  Call anytime we're open.  We can only ship on week
days.
Command:

     Thanks again to all of those that responded.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995



     Kreg Branden

Command:
          "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around
claiming they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human
species is doing."

          "Relax and enjoy the show."

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4453 Re: Cracked rock
8/4/93 14:03 56/ [e-mail] ()
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On Aug 4,  1:25am, Ben Scott wrote:
> Subject: Cracked rock
> I've been trying to create some letters set into a cliff face.  I'm
> going to do the cliff face in VistaPro since I have to animate  a fly-
> through up to it, and I'm going to use Morphplus to have the letters
> extrude themselves from the cliff face, and we're gonna use a Jazz to

What is a Jazz ?

> make the picture jiggle while they extrude... should be a neat effect.
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> All I need from Imagine is some letters that look like rock.  With
> a combination of Varyrelbright and Roughness I can make a fair
> approximation of rock, but cracks are missing.  I want some cracks in
> my rocks, and I can't seem to find a way to do it with Essence I...
> I've been trying to use VeinedMarble for about 4 hours now and I just
> can't get it to give me craggy lines.  In fact, I can't get it anywhere
> near the sample picture in the book, even using the default settings...
> I get these straight or gently curving lines which are otherwise pretty
> much what I need.
>
Command:
> Any ideas?  Short of buying Essence II of course.
>
> .                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>
>
> --
> .---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
> |Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone].|
> >-------------------------------------------------..------------------------<
> |"Only the rays of the sun can destroy the rock of|| Buy a Commodore Amiga: |
Command:
> |Uranus!" "Oh, you just need more fiber..." MST3k ||It's 100% Windows-Free! |
> `-------------------------------------------------'`------------------------'
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Ben Scott

Robin


--
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      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4454 Alpha Channel
8/4/93 08:07 20/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Folks,

  A question to break the silence...

  I see from the latest Imagine newsletter that V3 will have alpha channel
support. I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, but I've got no idea what it is or
how it can be used, other than it seems to have something to do with video. Can
anyone clarify?

Thx
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Rob

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| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4455 Re: Alpha Channel
8/4/93 16:17 20/ [e-mail]
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Someone was asking what is an alpha channel....

    The alpha channel is what separates 32-bit graphics from 24-bit graphics.
The "Alpha channel" is an extra 8-bit greyscale image that is tacked on to a
24-bit image to define transparency.  In this greyscale image, the brighter
the value, the more transparent the image.  Or it can be reversed (the
darker the value, the more transparent).  Alpha channels take effect when
rubbing-through one image into a 32-bit image, or pasting a brush on an image,
etc...
    In Imagine 3.0's case, it may not really mean "32-bit graphics".. It could
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simply mean all textures or brushmaps can use an 8-bit (256 colour) grey image
to define how much the texture or whatever is applied to an object from one
area to another.  Or maybe it's used in the rendering.. We really won't know
till we see it.
    Yes, alpha channel is used in all your better video workstations.  But
it's methods have been adopted my the budding Desktop video/graphics industry.
I hope this answers your question. :)

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4456 Amiga meeting at SIGGRAPH 4 Aug 93
8/4/93 17:19 49/ [e-mail]
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I attended the two hour Amiga graphics/video "SIG" meeting this morning
at the hotel next door to SIGGRAPH, previously announced here by
Mark Thompson (I'm x-posting this article to both the Imagine and
LightWave mailing lists).  It got off to a slow start.. we didn't have
any video facilities in the room 'cuz the Hilton wanted $200 {coff}
to wheel in some equipment. (Hey, it's not like Barron Hilton doesn't
rake in enough cash at his casinos in Vegas).

It was an interestng discussion.. the room eventually filled with a
couple dozen people. Amongst those in attendance (and apologies for
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slighting anyone I don't mention.. I should've kept a list when
everyone introduced themselves) were, Mark, Allen Hastings,
Stu Ferguson, Mark Swain, David Hopkins, Steve Worley, Bradley
Schenck, Mical Todorovic, Rick Rodriguez, John Grieggs, and a host
of other folks, some just-graduated students, some film and tv
professionals, almost all either Imagine users or LightWave
users or both. Rodriguez is beta testing Imagine 3.0 and spent a good
deal of time describing it. Right now, though, he's only testing the
PC version, and his *GUESS* was that the Amiga version MIGHT PERHAPS
POSSIBLY MAYBE WHO KNOWS WHICH WAY IS THE WIND BLOWING ship in
Command:
early Octover. This is pure speculation. Do not take it as fact.

Worley and Hastings gave each other some knowing nods when the question
as to whether LightWave will be changed to accept external algorithmic
textures (can you say "Essence"?). I would be surprised if this does
not come to pass. All agreed that Mr. Worley and his partner Glenn
Lewis (who didn't make the meeting) are certified wizards and then
Steve shamelessly plugged his book a few times. :-) In fact, there
wasn't nearly enough shameless plugging. Brad shamelessly plugged
his Terra Nova Diner Object set and within 2 seconds, sold the only
Command:
copy he had brought with him to someone in attendance at the meeting.

There was much speculation as to what NewTek was going to unveil
at their party tonight at the Movieland Wax Museum in Buena Park
(starts in about 2 hours, as I write this). The invite card says:

"A sneak preview of scenes from Spielberg's new NBC series seaQuest,
The world premiere of a new Toaster-created 3D music video from
Todd Rundgren (must be part of his "No World Order" album),
A surprse from Foundation Imaging the creators of the f/x for Babylon 5,
Command:
The world premiere of 'Robo Jr.' a 3D animated cartoon by Dale K. Myers,
plus the unveiling of a significant new hardware addition to the
Video Toaster."

Well, we'll find out what that thinge is in a couple hours and it shall
be posted here.

Harv
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4457 Re: Alpha Channel
8/4/93 18:52 9/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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My understanding of alpha channels from using PhotoShop is that its a way
of using masks in an image that makes compositing images easier. So, I
guess Imagine could generate shadows in an alpha channel, which would make
it easier to composite an imagine rendering with shadows on top of a
different background.

As you can see, I have a rather rudimentary understanding of this.

Andrew.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4458 SIGGRAPH: Acuris models
8/4/93 20:06 23/ Charles F. Kane <[e-mail]>
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Did anyone else check out the 'Acuris' booth at SIGGRAPH? Their models look
pretty incredible; unfortunately, they don't support any Amiga formats.
They do a lot of laser-scanning of objects, as well as conventional
creation methods. The big advantage over ViewPoint objects is that theirs
(Acuris', that is) come with the surfaces already colored, AND textures/
brushmaps/whatever the particular object format supports. They sell
objects in the following format:

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3D Studio & AutoCAD (DXF)
Wavefront (OBJ)
Topas (GRP)
SGI Inventor and Showcase (SGO)
Standard IGES and Pixar (RIB)
Intergraph Microstation (IGDS)

Anybody have much experience with converting any of these object types
using the various converters (Pixel3DPro, InterChange, etc.)? How well
do colors and textures come through?
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-CFK

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4459 SUBSCRIBE
8/4/93 20:54 11/ PETER GRECI <[e-mail]>
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Howdy Folks, I'd like to subscribe to the Imagine Mailing List. Thank you
kindly. BTW I'm doing this thru Compuserve if that makes a difference to
ya'll. my internet address here would be [e-mail]

I have the address obviously to subscribe to the Mailing list but what is
the Internet address of the Mailing list. Thanx for the help..

Pete Greci
Midgard Graphics

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4460 Subscribe
8/5/93 12:19 5/ [e-mail] (Wang)
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Please add me to the list!

E-mail address:[e-mail]

Thank!!!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4461 Refracted shadows
8/5/93 02:41 20/ [e-mail] (Jean Jean's Evil Cat)
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Hi.  I have another problem for the imagine mailing list.  I am rendering a scene
which has two infinite planes, with the camera between them.  The bottom plane
looks like a nice sandy sea-bottom, with the top having a wavy surface (ala Essence
bump) and the attributes of water.  The refaction is beautiful, Impulse, with all
it's problems, has been able to do good renderings of water all the way back since
Turbo Silver.  However, a real under-water scene would have a shadow pattern cast
upon the ocean floor.  There are no such shadows.  If I place another object under
the water, it casts a shadow just fine, but there is no shadow pattern from the
ocean surface.
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There is only one light source, a bright sun above both planes and far in front of
the camera (and slightly to the left).  Yes, cast shadows is set ;P  Yes, I am
using trace mode.

Does anyone know what is going on?

THanks

 -Jonathan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4462 Re: Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
8/5/93 10:29 53/ [e-mail] ()
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On Aug 4,  9:48am, R Hawkes wrote:
> Subject: Re: Programming for Imagine 3Rd party
>
>
> I've never seen Imagine (just heard about it).  It seems to me that in
> the simulation market you have to cater for a wide range of IG's, each
> with there own specialist information.  Whether it be separating plane
> positions, co-planar polygon priorities or properties such as mass, axis
> of movement etc...  I don't believe Imagine (or any modeler I know) allows
> an user-defined lump of data to be inserted as an element in the model
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> hierarchy.  I think that if Imagine did this they would really open up
> the simulation modeling market and make my life easier. :-)
>
I use to use Imagine, but I bought Real 3D. This software is provided with a
Language, which can be used to assign mathematical formulas to objects, with
collision detection. So this is maybe what you look for. I don't know if this
capabilities will be in Imagine 3.0, but I think they should, as Impulse said
"We don't want people to be waiting for version 4 after a few days of using
Imagine 3.0.
Let's wait for the release ...
Command:

Robin
> Rych
>
> ======================================================================
> Rycharde Hawkes                               email: [e-mail]
> Virtual Environment Laboratory
> Dept. of Psychology                   Tel  : [phone]
> Univ. of Edinburgh                    Fax  : [phone]
> ======================================================================
Command:
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from R Hawkes

Robin

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
Command:
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4463 Re: Cracked rock
8/5/93 10:27 60/ [e-mail] ()
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On Aug 4,  1:25am, Ben Scott wrote:
> Subject: Cracked rock
> I've been trying to create some letters set into a cliff face.  I'm
> going to do the cliff face in VistaPro since I have to animate  a fly-
> through up to it, and I'm going to use Morphplus to have the letters
> extrude themselves from the cliff face, and we're gonna use a Jazz to

What is a Jazz ?

> make the picture jiggle while they extrude... should be a neat effect.
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> All I need from Imagine is some letters that look like rock.  With
> a combination of Varyrelbright and Roughness I can make a fair
> approximation of rock, but cracks are missing.  I want some cracks in
> my rocks, and I can't seem to find a way to do it with Essence I...
> I've been trying to use VeinedMarble for about 4 hours now and I just
> can't get it to give me craggy lines.  In fact, I can't get it anywhere
> near the sample picture in the book, even using the default settings...
> I get these straight or gently curving lines which are otherwise pretty
> much what I need.
>
Command:
> Any ideas?  Short of buying Essence II of course.
>
> .                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>
>
> --
> .---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
> |Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone].|
> >-------------------------------------------------..------------------------<
> |"Only the rays of the sun can destroy the rock of|| Buy a Commodore Amiga: |
Command:
> |Uranus!" "Oh, you just need more fiber..." MST3k ||It's 100% Windows-Free! |
> `-------------------------------------------------'`------------------------'
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Ben Scott

Robin

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--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

Command:
      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
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Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4464 040 imagine
8/5/93 05:45 6/ [e-mail]
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Could someone tell me (email is fine) what the byte size is for the 040
compiled Imagine executable?

Zach ([e-mail])

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4465 Water
8/5/93 13:30 48/ [e-mail] ()
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Hi !
Just for your information, here is a trick I used to make a very good-looking
water (of which I was very proud).

I was not happy with the wave texture. I tried to aply 2 different wave texture
(with, the same wavelength, but not the same speed, and oriented at about 30
degrees one from the other (forgive my poor english)) on a plane, and obtaining
a quit good sea. But it was, IMO, too much artificial.

So, I took a picture of sea, that I've made during hollydays, and I applied it
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as an altitude map on a plane, which was reflecting and partially transparent.
But, and here is the trick I'm proud of, as I wanted an animated water, I used a
morphing program (at that time I used Image master but now I prefer MorphPlus,
even if it has not splines). I took twice the same picture, and morph it from
the first to the second one, so that one wave was matching the next one on the
last picture. Do you see what I mean (it's not easy to explain it by words, even
more in english). I put about 50 vectors on the picture, not too much uniformly.
So I obtained a moving water animation, very realistic. And when I applied it on
the plane in Imagine, it was even better.

Command:
The only problem that I have is that as I use it now in a pond, made with the
intersection of a terrain ( made with magnetism tool on a plane) and a cube,
which is the water, it doesn't look so nice because the border of the pond
doesn't stop (or at least limits) the water movement.

Try it !

Make any comments or criticisms (so I won't be so proud {:^)

Robin
Command:

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
Command:
                                                       \|/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4466 Imagine PC vs. Amiga
8/4/93 22:58 10/ Tim Krego <[e-mail]>
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Has anyone compared the rendering speed of Imagine PC to Imagine Amiga?
I have a 25MHz 040 Amiga and a 486-66MHz IBM and although I know the IBM
version will probably render faster I would rather stick with one
machine and that would be my Toaster 4000.  What about Essence and the
PC Imagine, is there a specific IBM version avail?

--
______________________________________________________________
Tim Krego - Promiga | How can one little insulated wire bring
[e-mail]  | so much happiness? - Homer Simpson
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4467 Re: SIGGRAPH Imagine and Toaster News
8/5/93 07:31 36/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Tim Krego wrote:
> Has anyone compared the rendering speed of Imagine PC to Imagine Amiga?
> I have a 25MHz 040 Amiga and a 486-66MHz IBM and although I know the IBM
> version will probably render faster I would rather stick with one
> machine and that would be my Toaster 4000.  What about Essence and the
> PC Imagine, is there a specific IBM version avail?

According to Rick Rodriguez at SIGGRAPH, the PC version is much faster, as
much as 2x to 4x, because it doesn't have the interrupts of the Amiga's
multitasking.  The speed factor was confirmed by several others present,
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some of whom are using networked PCs running Imagine to do professional
film production.

Steve Worley, who was also present, said the PC version is in the works.

That's what I recall, anyway; any errors are probably my own faulty memory...

BTW, NewTek announced a four-processor accelerator for the Toaster that is
supposed to be faster than a Cray, shipping for Christmas, and costing
under $10,000.  If I remember the numbers correctly, each processor is
Command:
running at 160 MHz(!!!) and the MIPS was something like 400.
Unfortunately, they weren't handing out literature, so I don't have a hard
copy to back up my memory.

Anybody know of any way to get comparable price/performance out of Amiga
or PC hardware configurations?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
Command:

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4468 Re:  Refracted shadows
8/5/93 08:28 29/ [e-mail] (PJ Foley)
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regarding [e-mail] (Jean Jean's Evil Cat)'s [Jonathan] question
of refracted shadows:

What you are looking for is called "Caustics."  From the Essence II
manual (Apex Software):

             Caustics are those funky light patterns that you see on the
        walls of a swimming pool when a bright light is shining down on
        the water.  These patterns are caused when the water's surface
        refracts the light like a lens, concentrating the sunlight in
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        complex random patterns.  Since the water's surface changes all
        the time (ripples don't stand still!) the light patterns also
        change continually.

This texture works great.  All one has to do is map it to the surfaces
that are under water.  It is moprhable, and you can change the complexity
and percent of coverage (thick or thin lines).

I suppose that this is a rather difficult principle of light to successfully
ray trace (at least to render, and still be alive to see the resultant
Command:
image!).  It would seem rather intense to emmulate.

PJ

1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS1001001SOS
 "IF POSSIBLE  STEAL ANY ONE THESE    | [e-mail]|
  DRAWINGS INCLUDING THIS SENTENCE"   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|   a
   - Shusaku Arakawa                  | Has renderer, will travel.|  b dXEN

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4469 Re: SIGGRAPH Imagine and Toaster News
8/5/93 10:25 149/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> BTW, NewTek announced a four-processor accelerator for the Toaster that is
> supposed to be faster than a Cray, shipping for Christmas, and costing
> under $10,000.  If I remember the numbers correctly, each processor is
> running at 160 MHz(!!!) and the MIPS was something like 400.
> Unfortunately, they weren't handing out literature, so I don't have a hard
> copy to back up my memory.

Just to keep things clear, here is a copy of the press release handed out
at the NewTek party.  It was posted to the lightwave and toaster mailing
lists by Harv.  Here is a copy of his article which includes a copy of the
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press release...


---------- Begin include

From [e-mail] Thu Aug  5 06:05:45 1993
Lines: 113
Date: Wed,  4 Aug 93 23:43:22 PDT
X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)
From: [e-mail]
Command:
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: NewTek unveils "The Screamer"
Content-Length: 5609

[crossposted to the LightWave and Video Toaster mailing lists, and
comp.sys.amiga.graphics]
NewTek held their SIGGRAPH party/product announcement tonite at the
Movieland Wax Museum in Buena Park, CA (about 8 miles from the site
of SIGGRAPH at the Anaheim Convention Center).

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Approx. 2000 people attended.  It was jammed.  Partygoers were allowed
to tour the Wax Museum at no charge, scarf down appetizers, guzzle down
all the free drinks they could grab with both hands, and then adjourned
to an outdoor area (actually I think it's part of the parking lot) where
a large screen projection system was set up.  Your reporter ended up
standing at the back of the crowd, due to bad planning; there were way
more people than there were chairs.

Then, in sequence, Kiki Stockhammer, Wil Wheaton, Paul Montgomery and
Tim Jenison introduced varous video segments, working up from the
Command:
usual Toaster promo tapes, through a video made by a skateboarding
guy, to a lovely and cute little 5 minute 3D-rendered animation called
"Robo Jr.", then into two new Todd Rundgren videos composed mainly
in LightWave but with other Toaster effects (the audience was mixed
on these - some people love Rundgren's stuff and others can't stand
it. I thought his new videos were incredibly impressive and I like
his tunes too... Rundgren was there along with his typical
entourage... well, what can I say. He's an "artiste."). Then a few
promos and a short segment of Spielberg's new seaQuest series were shown.
Finally, Montgomery and Jenison took the stage again (all though the
Command:
evenings performances there were constant problems with the wireless
microphones going on and off.. someone in the crowd shouted out
"time you guys made an AUDIO Toaster!"), and introduced the last video
of the night which was very short and quick blast of numbers about
their new product, The Screamer. They then pulled a sheet off a
prototype Screamer on the stage and the camera zoomed in on it and
filled the large projection screen with its image.  From what I
could see, it's a floor-standing tower box, maybe 3 feet high, a foot
wide, and two feet deep, colored grayish silver and red, and one
side of it comes up from the bottom and twists at the top.  It was
Command:
quickly spirited away for press interviews and I couldn't get a picture
of it.. I'm sure the magazines will take care of that lack in short
order. Was anythng IN this prototype box? Who knows.

That was it.  No questions were taken. The thing was brought on, shown,
and hauled away in less than 2 minutes. Immediately, a new flyer
started to appear on tables all over the crowd, and I've typed in most
of it for you to peruse below.

Disclaimer: I am not employed by NewTek Inc. I own no stock in the company.
Command:
I don't even own a Toaster. They do throw a helluva good party though,
but they almost never plan for enough space to accomodate the ever-
increasing crowds that show up for their affairs. This party was
jam-packed and made quite an impression.  If you're part of the
NewTek cult, you would've enjoyed it immensely. Good food too :)

Begin quoted flyer (any typos or emissions are mine and are purely
due to fatigue :-) :

The introduction of NewTek's Video Toaster Screamer is about to cause
Command:
a revolution in the 3D industry.  Now, creating animation can take less
time than you ever imagined possible.  TheScreamer 3D rendering engine
elevates the Video Toaster into one of the fastest 3D tools ever created.
High speed RISC processors drive the Toaster's built-in LightWave
animation system to deliver twice the 3D rendering power of a Cray I
supercomputer.

The Screamer is a breakthrough 3D rendering engine designed specifically
for NewTek's Emmy-award winning Video Toaster System.  The stunning
computing speed of the Screamer is a result of an innovative hardware
Command:
desgn based on multiple RISC processors. Four parallel MIPS R4400 RISC
processors allow the Screamer to deliver over 600 MIPS system performance.
By running each processor at 150 Mhz with both internal and external
caches the Screamer reaches an amazing 340 SPECMarks.

The Toaster Screamer system comes complete with NTSC video in and out and
takes full advantage of the Toaster's award winning LightWave 3D animation
system.  Already the most popular 3D animation system in the world, the
Video Toaster and LightWave have been credited with bringing 3D visual
effects to weekly television for the first time. With complex 3D effects
Command:
sequences in every episode, shows such as Babylon 5 and Steven
Spielverg's seaQuest DSV are setting new standards of excellence.

The Screamer differs from expensive dedicated 3D workstations in the same
way that the Video Toaster stands out among traditional video gear.
The introduction of the Screamer brings 3D rendering power that was
astronomically expensive to a stunning new price point.  At $9,995
the Toaster Screamer offers significantly more rendering power per
dollar than any other 3D system in the world.  The economics of
3D animation have just changed forever.
Command:

Specificatons:

Video Toaster Screamer.  $9995 (available 4th quarter '93)
An external rendering engine for the Video Toaster

Processors: Four parallel MIPS R4400 - 64 bit superpipelined RISC
processors

Clock Speed: 150 MHz
Command:

Memory: Internal Cache: 32K on each processor
Secondary Cache: Up to 8 MB
Program Memory: expandable to 1 Gigabyte

Requires Video Toaster Workstation

(then followed by the usual Toaster specifications which I'm not going
to type in here).

Command:
End of Quote

Contact NewTek for more information. This is all I have at this point
in time.

Harv
[e-mail]

----------

Command:
             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

 He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4470 OK OK....
8/5/93 17:45 6/ [e-mail]
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    OK, David I want one; anybody who is REALLY going to get the new
toaster wan't a roommate (I'll let ya use my 1200).

 I'm waiting to hear what paul has to say....

 Alex D. sounds like you can get your 10 second render times....
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4471 New Newtek thingamabob
8/5/93 21:51 35/ [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
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Two comments on Harv's notes:

> they almost never plan for enough space to accomodate the ever-
> increasing crowds that show up for their affairs.

I doubt this is accidental.  What's more impressive - a few empty seats, or
crowds of people who can't even get standing room?

> deliver twice the 3D rendering power of a Cray I
> supercomputer.
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The Cray 1 was a supercomputer in 1977... and even then, what with all
the options and versions, a comparison like that covers a lot of ground.
However, four R4400 chips is in no way slow.

Now, far be it from me to say anything against Impulse OR Newtek...
but how many people think Impulse is ever going to even bother trying to
come out with their alleged render accelerator, and how many think it's
just an excuse to keep them from having to develop a SAGE version of
Imagine?
Command:

And while I can't fault Newtek's business sense for making a proprietary
addition for a proprietary system, the last thing the Amiga market needs is
Yet Another Standard.  Is anyone out there ever going to support SAGE?

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
Command:
|Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone].|
>-------------------------------------------------..------------------------<
|"Only the rays of the sun can destroy the rock of|| Buy a Commodore Amiga: |
|Uranus!" "Oh, you just need more fiber..." MST3k ||It's 100% Windows-Free! |
`-------------------------------------------------'`------------------------'
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4472 Re: Refracted shadows
8/5/93 20:25 21/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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-----

On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Jean Jean's Evil Cat wrote:

>
>
> There is only one light source, a bright sun above both planes and far in front of
> the camera (and slightly to the left).  Yes, cast shadows is set ;P  Yes, I am
> using trace mode.
>
> Does anyone know what is going on?
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>

Is the water fully transparent ? if it is, you won't see any shadows.
You could also try putting a Filter map onto the surface with the map being
slightly opaque so that this is carried like a stained-glass window effect.
Hope you understand what I mean...

Nik.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4473 Re: SIGGRAPH Imagine and Toaster News
8/5/93 20:39 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Doug Kelly wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Tim Krego wrote:
> > Has anyone compared the rendering speed of Imagine PC to Imagine Amiga?
> > I have a 25MHz 040 Amiga and a 486-66MHz IBM and although I know the IBM
> > version will probably render faster I would rather stick with one
> > machine and that would be my Toaster 4000.  What about Essence and the
> > PC Imagine, is there a specific IBM version avail?
>
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> According to Rick Rodriguez at SIGGRAPH, the PC version is much faster, as
> much as 2x to 4x, because it doesn't have the interrupts of the Amiga's
> multitasking.  The speed factor was confirmed by several others present,
> some of whom are using networked PCs running Imagine to do professional
> film production.
>
If this is the difference between an A4000 and a 66Mhz DX2 then this could
all be attributed to the CPU. The DX2 runs at around 50 Mips, while the
25Mhz '040 can give you at best 20 Mips. This would then at least account
for the >2x the increase.
Command:

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4474 Re: SIGGRAPH Imagine and Toaster News
8/6/93 03:17 26/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>If this is the difference between an A4000 and a 66Mhz DX2 then this could
>all be attributed to the CPU. The DX2 runs at around 50 Mips, while the
>25Mhz '040 can give you at best 20 Mips. This would then at least account
>for the >2x the increase.

     I thought we were talking MFLOPS here. Integer calculations only
count for screen redraws etc... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though the
'040 was near the newer Intel processors in floating point operations..
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Whatever the case (Amiga or PC), someone needs to come out with
application specific rendering boards (or the software to support
presently availiable hardware) or SAGE compatible software. It's too bad
'bout the "Screamer's" pricetag. It comes to 'bout $14,000 in Canada, same
as a BMW K1 when you consider the ram purchase you'll need to make.....


                                            Christopher


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....and if there be some harder, better way     [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we       [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4475 unsubscribe
8/6/93 03:41 5/ "Git wants an 040 for his amiga." <[e-mail].
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unsubscribe



Time to take a break folks :)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4476 Impulse newsletter
8/6/93 07:48 25/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        I received my newsletter a couple of days ago.  It said something
        on the front page about the Dream machine.  It said that it would
        say inside how much it is.  Then I looked inside and found
        no pricing estimates; only statements like "I have lots of money
        and want it no matter how much it costs" model (paraphrased).
        Then they mentioned that the real information was coming out in
        the next newsletter. OhhhKayyyy.  They mentioned nothing about the
        formats that it will support or anything.  That's a bit vague to
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        say the least.  I'm interested in the dream machine, but Impulses
        slipped deadlines, vagueness, and known reputation for terrible
        customer support is not comforting.  The DPS PAR is here now.

        Also, does anyone know if the kinematics that they are referring
        to in 3.0 will be as thourough as the language that is described in
        Real 3D? They did not elaborate on it in the newsletter.

        Dale

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       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4477 INT vs FP
8/6/93 08:26 25/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Folks,

  I have an accelerator with a math coprocessor, so I've been using the FP
version of Imagine 2.0. The board's been giving me some trouble, so I hit upon
the idea of using the INT version, since most of the problems were due to
co-processor communication with the CPU. (At least until I have a chance to
work on the board itself).

  Will the INT version run more slowly? I assume both have the same
functionality, although I admit I'm not up on the difference between the INT
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and FP versions down at the low-level code area. What differences can I expect?
I still plan to run it on the accelerator ('020 @ 16MHz).

  Well, it's an accelerator if you're used to an A1000 like me!

Thx
Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
Command:
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4478 How do bones work?
8/6/93 10:37 16/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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How are bones made in programs like Real 3D?  Better yet, if
someone can answer it, how will bones be implemented in
Imagine 3.0?  Would you sort of add an axis to a certain
area, say the upper arm, to act like the bone in the arm and
assign a certain area of points which are affected by the
bone/axis.  If this is the case, then do you restrict the
motion by restricting motion along one or more axes?  I just
can't picture what it would be like.  Should an object made
in 2.0 be able to get bones in 3.0?  I'm just thinking about
making some characters which will use bones, and I wonder if
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I can go ahead and start making them, and add the bones when
3.0 comes out.

Thanks,
Peter Garza
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4479 Pumping Impulse for specs on the Screamer
8/6/93 11:04 11/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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I will be calling Impulse again in about three hours.  I was going to ask them
a little more about the performance of their machine.  I know to ask about how
many polygons per second (shaded, textured, etc.), and I also know to ask
about how many FLoating-point Operations Per Second, we have the MIPs from
the flyer (which incidentally got an "ooh!" from one of our own hardware
engineers, BTW), but what else do we want to know?  Does it do z-buffering?
I'm thinking if this thing is powerful enough, they could land it into a
real-time application of some sort.  Maybe I don't know the numbers well
enuf to judge.
-JOe Solinsky
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Belt Cisterns Endearing
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4480 Re: New Newtek thingamabob
8/6/93 11:52 24/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Ben Scott writes:
>
> The Cray 1 was a supercomputer in 1977... and even then, what with all
> the options and versions, a comparison like that covers a lot of ground.
> However, four R4400 chips is in no way slow.

I thought that was kind of funny myself.  NewTek gave a bunch of specs
on the Screamer - 600MIPS and 340 SPECMarks (whateverthehell that is),
but seemed to leave out the most important ones like MFLOPS or
polys/sec.  Still, my impression is that the MIPS R4400 is the latest
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stateoftheart CPU found in the SGI machines, and you can upgrade an
older SGI to the R4400 for $6000 each, so getting 4 of them for $10000
doesn't sound like a bad deal.

I suppose NewTek will say more about it when it's actually shipping.
BTW, *very* cool presentation they gave - despite a few audio problems
"hey Butthead, this audio SUCKS".  I was impressed anyway, course the 6
free beers I drank beforehand probably added something...  My only
question - WHAT happened to the case for the Screamer??  Did they leave
it in the back of their car in the sun or something?  It looked like it
Command:
melted... extremely UGLY.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4481 Duh.  Yeah, that's what I meant.
8/6/93 12:54 9/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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Um,
        I actually made more than a type-error.  I called Impulse and made
a bigger fool of myself.  They were very understanding.  No one was available
this hour (the phone kept ringing and ringing in the tech support extension) at
NewTek.  The receptionist sounds suspiciously young, though.  A bit of an \
accent.  I hope to find out what I need to today.  Should I call Impulse and
try to get info on their machine?  It's always fun to try.
-JOe Solinsky
Bill Stic-ums Engineering
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4482 Non-spline paths...
8/6/93 13:50 17/ [e-mail] (Brian Matthew Aljian)
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[There was a message about this a few weeks ago, but like a dork
I didn't save it.]

How can I make an object into a path?  For instance, let's say I've
created a primitive disk, deleted all of the faces, and deleted the
middle point so I have a circular "object".  Let's say I want to make
this circular object into a path (I know you could just maked a closed
spline path, but just for the sake of argument) how would I do that?

Thanks in advance for any answers/comments/suggestions/etc...!
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-Le Grand "B"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Aljian (a.k.a. "Assweepay")                               // Only Amiga
[e-mail]                                        // makes it
"Procrastinators do it tomorrow."                           \\// possible...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4483 How exactly are brushmaps applied?
8/6/93 15:51 21/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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Fellow Imaginarians....


Does anybody have a clue about how exactly Imagine computes the pixel color
when brushmaps are applied? What I mean by this is, when I apply a color
brushmap to an object, the brushmap inherits the attributes of the parent
object. Sometimes this isn't what I want.

For instance, I made an object using the Ship Gray attributes from the back of
Understanding Imagine. (Looks great BTW!) But when I apply a genlocked, color
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brushmap, it took on the specular attributes of the base object! Hence, when
the lighting strikes it, the brushmap washes out the color. I want it to keep
it's color attributes, as if it were painted with flat paint.

Is this just a matter of how Imagine interprets brushmaps. Is there some method
or kludge to keep the brushmap from taking on the objects attributes and keep
it's own?

Thanks!

Command:
Byrt Martinez
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4484 UNSUBSCRIBE
8/6/93 19:57 1/ [e-mail]
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21400.3.1.4485 Re: INT vs FP
8/6/93 20:24 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 6 Aug 1993, Rob (R.D.) Hounsell wrote:

>
> co-processor communication with the CPU. (At least until I have a chance to
> work on the board itself).
>
>   Will the INT version run more slowly? I assume both have the same
> functionality, although I admit I'm not up on the difference between the INT
> and FP versions down at the low-level code area. What differences can I expect?
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> I still plan to run it on the accelerator ('020 @ 16MHz).
>
What I found is that Imagine runs only marginally slower without the FPU.
You will see a drop in speed by about 15-25%.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4486 Re: SIGGRAPH Imagine and Toaster News
8/6/93 20:14 37/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 6 Aug 1993, Christopher Stewart wrote:

>
>
> >If this is the difference between an A4000 and a 66Mhz DX2 then this could
> >all be attributed to the CPU. The DX2 runs at around 50 Mips, while the
> >25Mhz '040 can give you at best 20 Mips. This would then at least account
> >for the >2x the increase.
>
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>      I thought we were talking MFLOPS here. Integer calculations only
> count for screen redraws etc... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though the
> '040 was near the newer Intel processors in floating point operations..
> Whatever the case (Amiga or PC), someone needs to come out with
> application specific rendering boards (or the software to support
> presently availiable hardware) or SAGE compatible software. It's too bad

Imagine doesn't actually use the FPU as much as it should... I know this
because originally I had a 33Mhz '030 board without the FPU. I thought
that adding the FPU would greatly speed up the rendering... well it didn't.
Command:
There was a speedup, but it was between 15 and 30% over the speed of the
'030. (using the FPU version of Imagine in the scond case).
After spending A$ 350 for the FPU I was a bit dissapointed. Still, when
Essence came out a year later I saw the advantage of having the FPU. :-)
I now have a 4000 and again the speed up was a bit dissapointing - around 2x.
This is a bit less than expected, but then again, I don't believe that
Imagine has been properly optimized for the '040.

So, in short, with Imagine the CPU speed is important.

Command:
As far as separate rendering engines go... I'd love one, but as you say,
the price is prohibitive unless you can  make up for it professionaly.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4487 Problem with "grow" effect...
8/6/93 20:51 21/ [e-mail] (Brian Matthew Aljian)
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I'm "growing" a word so it looks like it's written out, but
I'm doing three seperate "grows", one for each letter in the
word.  My animation is 180 frames long, so I grow the first
letter from frames 1-60, the second one from frame 61-120,
and the third one from frame 121-180.

Problem: After frame 60, my first letter disappears while the
second one is growing!

Is there any way to make an object STAY "grown" after it is
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completed growing?  Imagine seems to think, "oh, you've
stopped growing, you must not want to see the object anymore."

Thanks in advance for any answers/suggestions/comments/etc...

-Brian

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"Procrastinators do it tomorrow."                           \\// possible...
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4488 Re: How exactly are brushmaps applied?
8/6/93 20:30 28/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 6 Aug 1993, Byrt Martinez wrote:

> Fellow Imaginarians....
>
>
> For instance, I made an object using the Ship Gray attributes from the back of
> Understanding Imagine. (Looks great BTW!) But when I apply a genlocked, color
> brushmap, it took on the specular attributes of the base object! Hence, when
> the lighting strikes it, the brushmap washes out the color. I want it to keep
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> it's color attributes, as if it were painted with flat paint.
>
> Is this just a matter of how Imagine interprets brushmaps. Is there some method
> or kludge to keep the brushmap from taking on the objects attributes and keep
> it's own?
>
I think that the only way to get around this is to actually make 2
objects, i.e. one with the base color, and the other - a part of the first
that you want to map the brush onto and keep it the original (i.e. white)
color. Then, group these 2 and apply the brush to the right bit.
Command:
If you want to do this in reverse, split the object into 2 parts...

Hope this helps.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4489 Re: Problem with "grow" effect...
8/7/93 02:24 33/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>
>I'm "growing" a word so it looks like it's written out, but
>I'm doing three seperate "grows", one for each letter in the
>word.  My animation is 180 frames long, so I grow the first
>letter from frames 1-60, the second one from frame 61-120,
>and the third one from frame 121-180.
>
>Problem: After frame 60, my first letter disappears while the
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>second one is growing!
>
>Is there any way to make an object STAY "grown" after it is
>completed growing?  Imagine seems to think, "oh, you've
>stopped growing, you must not want to see the object anymore."
>

     Snapshot the objects in their final states (frames 60 and 120 in this
case) from the stage editor. Just insert the respective objects as a
"morph" from the end of the growth 'til the end of the animation. Same
Command:
thing drove me nuts awhile ago when I was skywriting ;-).

                                               Christopher

ps. What's the word?



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4490 Whats the best Human Form?
8/7/93 04:57 6/ [e-mail] (Oren Ben)
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Well I'm trying to find the 'best' human object for Imagine.
What I want out of it, is to be able to move it in a semi hierarchical
manner, to be anatomically correct,(ie muscle form,skeletal etc), and reas
onably detailled for close up work.
Thanks for the advice.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4491 FTP Sites
8/7/93 05:27 15/ [e-mail] (Dennis Zeitz)
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Could someone please give me a list of the ftp sites which have Imagine
sections and the Directorys too.  I'm just starting ftp so I don't know
much about it. Thanks!

Anyone who has collections of pd Imagine objects and are interested in
trading, let me know.  I'm starting a Imagine section on a friends bbs
and I need more objects. thanks. :)

Dennis R. Zeitz

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[e-mail]


--
Dennis Zeitz              [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4492 Unsubscribe me please !!
8/7/93 14:42 1/ "Paul C. Brant" <[e-mail]>
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Title says it all !
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21400.3.1.4493 Re: Essence II JPEGS
6/30/93 07:07 0/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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21400.3.1.4494 Help Montiro PRob!
7/9/93 20:28 27/ [e-mail]
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Ok, so this has absolutly nothing to do iwht imagine except that
I cant see my screen! Help. Anybody know what would cause a 1084 to only
show a screen if you are pushing on the top edge of the monitor?
(Mind you my case is off so I am effectively bending the board and my
power light is still on.. .just no screen.) If I push on the top and
bend the board I get a nice picture.. otherwise I have NO PICTURE AT ALL?
(I assume this to be a high voltage prob cuz I dont even get static from
the screen?) Anybody whave any ideas what to check? How can I run imagine
if I cant see my screen? Cry Whimper Snivel. Sniff. Just because I bought
it used for $75 bucks doest mean I desearve not tp see my screen? He;lp
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Please? And this DOES relate to imagine cuz I cant work it in! (Muahahaha)
Anybody ? Help? Beg, pleade, The computer is my friend. I cant live like this?
I feel, well blind. Wow. Its a scary feeling guys. Forgive my spelling cuz
I cant see to edit. I only hope I typoed the address correctly?
Ok, so I have it on a funciton key. ;)

Please.. anybody? Help help.. SOS..

Serously...
   -Don
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DMCCALL@UOFT02
[e-mail]

BTW HAve any messages to me bounced lately? I had a rather full mailbox....

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4495 Re: Problem with "grow" effect...
8/8/93 22:42 23/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 6 Aug 1993, Brian Matthew Aljian wrote:

> I'm "growing" a word so it looks like it's written out, but
> I'm doing three seperate "grows", one for each letter in the
> word.  My animation is 180 frames long, so I grow the first
> letter from frames 1-60, the second one from frame 61-120,
> and the third one from frame 121-180.
>
> Problem: After frame 60, my first letter disappears while the
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> second one is growing!
>
> Is there any way to make an object STAY "grown" after it is
> completed growing?  Imagine seems to think, "oh, you've
> stopped growing, you must not want to see the object anymore."

Check in the Action Editor if your first letter has the Actor bar present
for the whole 180 frames. It sure sounds like that is your problem.

Nik.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4496 Speed of Imagine
8/8/93 23:03 40/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok, I want to find out once and for all the full story about the speed of
Imagine on Amiga vs the speed on PC. Being as it is that I really like
facts, I will only believe the information that can be obtained from both
platforms doing the same job.

So, I've decided to set up a rendering project that could test the speed
of each platform. I will be uploading it to wuarchive.wustl.edu on
Saturday and will let you guys know how fast the image was rendered in
Scanline and then in Trace, and at what resolution. I will use my A4000 to
render the image and both the project and rendering will go to RAM, so
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that the fastest possible speed is obtained, and the setup on each
platform is simplified (I hope).

The objects in the image will not be very complex, but  intend to use
things that are known to make Imagine crawl , i.e. reflections,
refractions, Pastella Texture.

I will not be using any Brushmaps so as to avoid making this whole
exercise too complicated.

Command:
The settings that may also affect the speed such as Anti-aliasing and
recursion depth will be set to defaults unless you guys prefer otherwise ?

Anyway, I hope that a couple of you guys using Imagine PC with 33mhz or 50
Mhz (or 66 mhz) PC's would do me a big favour and render these images at
the same res. and post the times they took to render.

While this may seem trivial to many, a friend and I plan on rendering an
animation and apart from using our Amigas may also use a PC. If we are to
use it, we will need to obtain another HD for it. This will be worth it if
Command:
the speed of Imagine on the PC is considerable.
So, if you can help, please obtain the project from the next Saturday, and
let me know how long it took.

Thanks.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4497 Re: Problem with "grow" effect...
8/9/93 07:49 38/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|Problem: After frame 60, my first letter disappears while the
|second one is growing!
|
|Is there any way to make an object STAY "grown" after it is
|completed growing?  Imagine seems to think, "oh, you've
|stopped growing, you must not want to see the object anymore."

        I have not used the grow effect, but my first guess would be that
        your actor bar does not go for the entire length of your
        animation.  I had a similar problem this weekend with my object
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        following a path.  After the object was at the end of its path I
        had it explode.  However the object jumped to another position when
        it exploded.  It occured to me that at the end of the path, I
        deleted the path object (I assumed I didn't need the information
        any more).  The exploding object no longer knew where it was
        supposed to be; so it defaulted to 0,0,0.  My solution was to
        determined the coordinates of the last position in the path and
        then create a new position bar, immediately after the path was
        completed.  This fixed position was all I needed for the duration
        of the Fx.
Command:

        The idea here is be aware of the duration of the bars in your
        action editor.  If the Actor bar ends you are telling Imagine that
        it does not need the object to be used in that frame and therefore
        it will not be used. If an actor is to be seen throughout  the
        duration of the animation, its actor bar must be indicate that,
        even though its position, alignment, and other characteristics may
        not change.

        Hope this helps.
Command:

        Dale

       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4498 Two new bugs found in Imagine 2.0 !!
8/9/93 11:23 31/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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I didn't believe to find any new bugs in Imagine as I am using
it quite a long time. But this weekend I came across 2 new
"features" in Imagine's rendering engine:

First:
Create a simple object with e.g linear texture slowing fading out
the object along the z-axis (that is increasing filter up to 255 RGB)
The object must also be made reflective. Use chrome attribute settings
for example.

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Now render this object. Ahhhh it's fading out. So far so good.
But now add a ground with a colourfull texture (use essence for example)
Position this ground object high beyond your fading object.
Now nothing is fading anymore :-(

Second:

Create a nearly transparent object. Put this over a reflective
object. At areas where the transparent object is hiding the reflective
object the reflective object is rendered brighter !
Command:
I think this is wrong, or am I wrong ?

Any comments (e.g. were these errors already known ?)

Hannes

PS: As someone pointed out recently:
If Impulse would correct ALL errors from Imagine 2.0 then
Imagine 3.0 would be a real hitter!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4499 Two new bugs found in Imagine 2.0 !! (fwd)
8/9/93 10:21 20/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Hannes,

>
> Create a nearly transparent object. Put this over a reflective
> object. At areas where the transparent object is hiding the reflective
> object the reflective object is rendered brighter !

  Not that it will help, but for my info, what mode was the scene rendered in?
What shape was the transparent object? Did it have any kind of index of
refraction?
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Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4500 make a curve
8/9/93 13:07 19/ [e-mail]
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Hi imagineers!
    Well after just one week I finished the manual, I saw that
somebody did not edit spelling etc very well. I did however discover
that it was very well written for the first time learner. anyway it's
very bad as a referance manual and even though I know something is
there I generaly cannont find it. Sooo I'm probably going to ask a
question that has been asked a thousand times but here goes...

    I created my first logo starting in the forms editor and wanted
to make a simple change after going to the detail editor. I had two
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points with a straight line between them. other packages I have used
allow an arc and by moving the mouse I can create a bow or long arc
between the points, I tried the magnet but it gets to all the other
points or hasn't enough power to do the job it really seemed a simple
thing to do but I'm new what can I say.....


                                            Thanks All
                                            Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4501 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/9/93 12:55 14/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Nikola Vukovljak writes:
>
> Anyway, I hope that a couple of you guys using Imagine PC with 33mhz or 50
> Mhz (or 66 mhz) PC's would do me a big favour and render these images at
> the same res. and post the times they took to render.

Just a note: that would not be a fair comparison - 25Mhz 040 vs 33/50Mhz
486.  You need to find someone with a 25Mhz 486.

Of course, if the PC you have is >25Mhz, it's probably going to be faster
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in any case.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4502 Re: How exactly are brushmaps applied?
8/9/93 13:31 25/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
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> I think that the only way to get around this is to actually make 2
> objects, i.e. one with the base color, and the other - a part of the first
> that you want to map the brush onto and keep it the original (i.e. white)
> color. Then, group these 2 and apply the brush to the right bit.
> If you want to do this in reverse, split the object into 2 parts...

Eeuew....

Kinda defeats the purpose of having brushmaps. I wish there was just more
control as to their appearance. It seems that they have a lot of control,
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but when you use them, limitations keep creeping up!

Is there a possible way to add say a filter map to COMPLETELY negate the
attributes of the parent object?

As an aside, when making certain altitude brush maps, it seems that it is very
difficult to make single pixel lines show up. Although the difference between
the colors are not that extreme, the altitude lines do not show up until it is
about 3 pixels wide. By that time, the lines are more like gouges on the
surface I am applying this to. Do I need to make the brushmap larger? Is this
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another limitation of Imagine?

Anyone?

Byrt Martinez
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4503 How exactly are brushmaps applied?
8/9/93 15:29 15/ [e-mail]
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Text item: 8/06/93 6:51PM (IA5Text Enclosure)

What I do to overcome this (especially when trying to add a decal to
a piece of glass)  Is to make a separate object shaped to perfectly
match the decal and put your brushmap on this new object.  "paste" the
whole object onto your parent object by grouping them.  Then the decal
can have any attribute you want. (or in your case DON'T WANT)

This get's tough if your decal is weird shaped or if you are pasting
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it to a curved surface but it still is often easier than the
alternative.

Adam

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4504 RE:brushmaps
8/9/93 15:57 21/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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Bryt Martinez asks:
it seems that it is very
difficult to make single pixel lines show up. Although the difference between
the colors are not that extreme, the altitude lines do not show up until it is
about 3 pixels wide. By that time, the lines are more like gouges on the
surface I am applying this to. Do I need to make the brushmap larger? Is this
another limitation of Imagine?

what resolution are you rendering at ? Even with antialiasing et.al., you  are pretty much
limited to how many pixels you are rendering. For example:
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make a grid of 1 pixel lines in Dpaint at 640x480. map this to a plane in Imagine, and render
it at 640x480, making sure the plane fills the camera view. You should see single pixel lines.
Now move the plane so it fills a quarter of the screen, and render at 320x400. You should
(i haven't tried this :-)) now see some dropouts of the grid, because you are not rendering
enough pixels to display all of the information.

The solution is to render at higher resolutions (8000x8000 is Imagines limit :-))
This way you should be able to pick up the finest details on your brush maps.

kevin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4505 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/9/93 16:23 32/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> Nikola Vukovljak writes:
> >
> > Anyway, I hope that a couple of you guys using Imagine PC with 33mhz or 50
> > Mhz (or 66 mhz) PC's would do me a big favour and render these images at
> > the same res. and post the times they took to render.
>
> Just a note: that would not be a fair comparison - 25Mhz 040 vs 33/50Mhz
> 486.  You need to find someone with a 25Mhz 486.
>
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> Of course, if the PC you have is >25Mhz, it's probably going to be faster
> in any case.
>
> --
> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>
What?  How so?  Don't wanna start a "My processor/computer is better than
your processor/computer" flame war...but....(heres a hint:  look at the
Orginization in my header, you know I've got a biased opinion ;)

Command:
Anyway, I'd like to see the results, regardless of the outcome.

I wonder what Impulse compiles with?

BTW, has Impulse fixed that problem with objects being ported from Amiga to
PC, wierd attribute thingy?

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

Command:
"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4506 Re: Imagine PC Attribute red-shift
8/9/93 18:56 10/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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According to those beta-testing Imagine 3.0, the red-shift problem in the
Attributes requester has been fixed in 3.0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4507 Re:  Speed of Imagine
8/9/93 20:01 3/ [e-mail] (Joseph C Garner)
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I would be interested to know if there is any way for the Amiga and the IBM to talk to each other using imagine.  For example, Is it possible to design objects on the Amiga and import the information to the IBM and render it then port the results back
to the Amiga?  Hopefully using a null modem cable and some software.  Any thoughts/ideas/tests/successful users?
joe
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4508 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/9/93 20:49 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:

> Nikola Vukovljak writes:
> >
> > Anyway, I hope that a couple of you guys using Imagine PC with 33mhz or 50
> > Mhz (or 66 mhz) PC's would do me a big favour and render these images at
> > the same res. and post the times they took to render.
>
> Just a note: that would not be a fair comparison - 25Mhz 040 vs 33/50Mhz
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> 486.  You need to find someone with a 25Mhz 486.
>
> Of course, if the PC you have is >25Mhz, it's probably going to be faster
> in any case.

As far as I know, the 25Mhz '040 is supposed to be as fast as a 50 Mhz DX 486.
This is the reason for my asking people to let me know how their >25Mhz
PC's compared. In any case who these days uses a 25Mhz DX ? 33Mhz is the
minimum anyway, and for 3D rendering nothing slower would be considered
with the prices of the PC's as they are.
Command:

Nik.



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21400.3.1.4509 UNSUBSCRIBE
8/9/93 21:17 1/ [e-mail]
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UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4510 Returned mail: Host unknown
8/10/93 01:46 52/ [e-mail] (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 email.sp.unisys.com!imagine... Host unknown

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          "Nikola Vukovljak" at Aug 9, 93 4:03 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: <sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu!jwalkup>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Speed of Imagine

Nikola Vukovljak writes:
>
Command:
> Anyway, I hope that a couple of you guys using Imagine PC with 33mhz or 50
> Mhz (or 66 mhz) PC's would do me a big favour and render these images at
> the same res. and post the times they took to render.

Just a note: that would not be a fair comparison - 25Mhz 040 vs 33/50Mhz
486.  You need to find someone with a 25Mhz 486.

Of course, if the PC you have is >25Mhz, it's probably going to be faster
in any case.

Command:
--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4511 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/10/93 07:26 34/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Joseph C Garner wrote:

> I would be interested to know if there is any way for the Amiga and the IBM
to talk to each other using imagine.  For example, Is it possible to design
objects on the Amiga and import the information to the IBM and render it then
port the results back
> to the Amiga?  Hopefully using a null modem cable and some software.  Any
thoughts/ideas/tests/successful users?
> joe

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Sure, a null modem cable and basic communications software works.  I've
used an old laptop as a low-tech removable hard drive this way.  Cleaned
off almost all of the 20-meg HD, installed a minimum system and ProComm
Plus, then used a null modem cable and NComm on my Amiga to transfer
rendered frames and object files back and forth.  Works fine.  If you're
planning to move large files, be aware that this takes some time: the
files are only sent at the max speed your serial ports and software can
handle, which in the case of my A500 was only 9600baud.

The only glitch I'm aware of is the bug in Imagine PC's Attributes
Command:
requester, which shifts the RGB values so you get a red-shift in objects
originally given attributes in Imagine 2.0 on the Amiga.  They've fixed
this bug in 3.0, according to the beta-testers.  Until the upgrade is
released, just don't modify the attributes of an object you port between
platforms; the bug only has an effect if you load the object into the
Attributes requester, leave it alone and it will render properly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

Command:
   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4512 Re: New Newtek thingamabob
8/9/93 21:51 22/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
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Hi Jeff (Jeff Walkup), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 6 you wrote:

: I suppose NewTek will say more about it when it's actually shipping.
: BTW, *very* cool presentation they gave - despite a few audio problems
: "hey Butthead, this audio SUCKS".  I was impressed anyway, course the 6
: free beers I drank beforehand probably added something...  My only
: question - WHAT happened to the case for the Screamer??  Did they leave
: it in the back of their car in the sun or something?  It looked like it
: melted... extremely UGLY.

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Guys you are talking about the Screamer as though it is out! They stated
the Screamer should be out the 4th quarter! Now since companies run
different quaters then the 4 seasons. I heard that New Tek's 4th quater
might be around a year from now!

WIth the way computer chips are advancing 1 year from now.... this system
will not be any news at all.

I would like to find out if what I heard is correct!!! I personally think
that the PENTIUM TECHNOLOGY and multiprocessors on a PC (yes I am sorry
Command:
but I doubt we will see it on the Amiga) might actually make Imagine
pretty fast as well.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4513 Re: New Newtek thingamabob
8/10/93 11:51 34/ MIKE <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
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quote:
Guys you are talking about the Screamer as though it is out! They stated
the Screamer should be out the 4th quarter! Now since companies run
different quaters then the 4 seasons. I heard that New Tek's 4th quater
might be around a year from now!

WIth the way computer chips are advancing 1 year from now.... this system
will not be any news at all.

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I would like to find out if what I heard is correct!!! I personally think
that the PENTIUM TECHNOLOGY and multiprocessors on a PC (yes I am sorry
but I doubt we will see it on the Amiga) might actually make Imagine
pretty fast as well.

endquote...


 The reason you won't see much of anything running on a Pentium (except maybe
Intel's own machines, if they have any) is because of a couple of minor
Command:
'problems' the pentium has. First, it needs a small refrigeration unit to
keep it from melting down. I think the heat output was something like 23
watts. Second, it's half as fast as the PowerPC chip. Third, it costs twice
as much as the PowerPC chip, not counting the refrigerator you have to put on
top of it.

 My question is: will there be ANY way for someone to use this 'Screamer' with
any other software besides the Toaster stuff? If this thing has to have the`
Toaster hardware to run and only works with the Toaster software, it's
not worth even the shipping cost to me. (Not that I could afford one
Command:
anyway.. :)

Mike
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4514 Mindless Gloating/ AMiga-related
8/10/93 12:57 11/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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errors to: /dev/null

Hello All!
        You are reading a message from one very happy young art
student.  I just got accepted and ENROLLED into an arts college i
Ohio. It is the Columbus College of Art & Design.  I was wondering if
anyone on the list is from the city of Columbus, or if there was an
appropriate Amiga Users Group there.  Oh, one thing I should mention:
they use Amigas in their computer graphics lab.
-Joe Solinsky
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Bail Stipends Engineering
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4515 Re: New Newtek thingamabob
8/10/93 13:41 35/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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I just got off the phone with Yury so I might as well reply to his post...

[e-mail] writes:
> They stated the Screamer should be out the 4th quarter!
> I heard that New Tek's 4th quater might be around a year from now!

Actually, they were implying 4th quarter *calendar* 93, ie this x-mas.

> WIth the way computer chips are advancing 1 year from now.... this system
> will not be any news at all.
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Well if you take the i860 as an example (which was the last hot MFLOP cruncher
to hit the streets), it was some time before it came down in price or
any other worthwhile CPU could challenge it. In fact its biggest competition
was the follow-up i860XP a couple years later. The only cost effective
challenger the 4400 is likely to see is the PowerPC 604 which isn't due out
for about 18 months.

> I personally think that the PENTIUM TECHNOLOGY and multiprocessors on a PC

Command:
Performance wise, Pentiums are quite a dissapointment. And to put enough of
them together to match the speed of 4 R4400s would take ALOT of bucks.
I think you are overestimating the speed with which the useable price
performance curve will move between now and December. I am certain the
Screamer will remain a great compute value even 6 months from now, and till
then, beta units will likely keep those in Hollywood who truly need it happy.
I agree that people shouldn't get too carried away over a product that is
far from public release, but it is still quite phenominal.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
Command:
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4516 Re: New Newtek thingamabob
8/11/93 09:44 81/ [e-mail] ()
Lines 1 to 10 of 81 (12%)
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-----
On Aug 9, 11:51pm, Yury German wrote:
> Subject: Re: New Newtek thingamabob
> Hi Jeff (Jeff Walkup), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 6 you
wrote:
>
>
> I would like to find out if what I heard is correct!!! I personally think
> that the PENTIUM TECHNOLOGY and multiprocessors on a PC (yes I am sorry
> but I doubt we will see it on the Amiga) might actually make Imagine
> pretty fast as well.
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>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Yury German

For your information, and as we don't know what will be the next microprocessor
used by Commodore for the Amiga (MIPS, DEC Alpha, M68060, ..), and as some
stations running Windows NT are comming out, using Pentium, Alpha or MIPS
processor, here are some figures (some are estimated) :

Chip            MHz (Ext/Int)   SPECint92       SPECfp92                System
Command:

486DX           33              18.2            8.3             Compaq 486/33L
486DX           50              30.1            14              Intel XPRESS
Pentium         66              64.5            56.9            ?
M68060          50              45 ?            40 ?            ?
R4000PC         50/100          36.8            40              SGI IndyPC
R4000SC         50/100          58.6            50.6            SGI IndySC,
Indigo
R4400SC         75/150          88              97              SGI Onyx
Sparc           40              21.8            22.8            Sun SS2
Command:
MicroSparc      50              22.8            18.4            SPARC Classic
(Sun)
SuperSP         36              44.2            52.9            SS10-30 (Sun)
IBM Power       33              28.2            57.6            IBM340
PowerPC 601     50              39              50              ?
PowerPC 601     66              49              65              ?
DEC Alpha       100             45.9            63.6            DEC 3000/300L
DEC Alpha       150             66.2            91.5            DEC 3000/300
DEC Alpha       150 (w/more cache)      74.3            125.1           DEC
3000/500
Command:

As you can see, one of the best (especially in floating point operations)
microprocessor is the new DEC Alpha chip. It consumes also a lot of power (~30W,
PowerPC will consume ~ 9W, Pentium 16W and R4000 consumes 12W). The smallest is
the PowerPC, followed by the R4000. Pentium, Alpha and 68060 are huge !

So, after all these figures, I think a station running WindowsNT (assuming a PC
version running on Windows NT will be released) on a DEC Alpha could be very
good, but expensive (I would like to know the exact prices of these chips). They
are more and more station running NT with MIPS R4000 chips (I work for Silicon
Command:
Graphics, we merged last year with MIPS, but this is my own opinion). These
chips are not the best, but they are small, available in volume, cheap, quite
fast, and used to develop NT. This would be a good choice. You can have a
486-priced R4000 station running Windows NT  Or maybe the PowerPC would be good,
also (when available).
CISC chips (as Pentium, MC68060) become bigger and bigger, and I really think
they won't be so good, and they will be expensive.

Any comments, questions are welcome.

Command:
Robin



--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics
Command:

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
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Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4517 Re: make a curve
8/11/93 09:06 25/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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>     I created my first logo starting in the forms editor and wanted
> to make a simple change after going to the detail editor. I had two
> points with a straight line between them. other packages I have used
> allow an arc and by moving the mouse I can create a bow or long arc
> between the points, I tried the magnet but it gets to all the other
> points or hasn't enough power to do the job it really seemed a simple
> thing to do but I'm new what can I say.....

Sorry, Imagine adhears to the old saying, 2 points make a line.  If you want
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to describe a curve, you need more points(ie. it won't really be a curve, but
a bunch of small straight lines that approximate a curve). Paths are made of
splines, which are curves described by points.  You can pull on and bend them,
but they can only be used for paths.

Well, something like that(standard disclamer).

Did someone already answer this?  Oh well, there it is again.


Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4518 Re: Mindless Gloating/ AMiga-related
8/11/93 10:52 29/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 29 (34%)
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> Hello All!
>       You are reading a message from one very happy young art
> student.  I just got accepted and ENROLLED into an arts college i
> Ohio. It is the Columbus College of Art & Design.

Congrats!!

> I was wondering if
> anyone on the list is from the city of Columbus, or if there was an
> appropriate Amiga Users Group there.  Oh, one thing I should mention:
-----
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> they use Amigas in their computer graphics lab.

Of course!
I am the current president of AmiCON (Amiga Central Ohio Network, or something
like that :) ).
We meet twice a month, and are fairly graphics oriented (no thanks to me
of course).

I will email you directly (or anyone else) with more info.

Command:
             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

 He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

Command: